Pacov's place to enjoy the show.

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/454943/

Please join me if you like.

 

 

 


 

 

Am I streaming


 

 

Well, I started a thread  back in August (https://forums.joeuser.com/411269/) that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheiRB76x5g
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

 

Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow - http://www.lolking.net/guides/7906

Comments (Page 180)
334 PagesFirst 178 179 180 181 182  Last
on Feb 24, 2013

awuffleablehedgie
Nowadays, you're better off with ArPen reds instead of anything-other-than-AD-to-help-you-last-hit.

That seems to be logical, but I'm not completely sold.  I also have no math to back it up.  I know reign of gaming did a big analysis in season 2 that covered the pro's cons of each setup - a more recent evaluation from season 3 here - http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/vvinrar/23267-early-game-builds-what-is-best-for-ad-carries

my only reason for thinking AS might be useful is in the instance of vayne and cait where the more attacks you get out the higher the dps (I'm truly just thinking about vayne here, though, so I guess keep that as a focus in this discussion).  So, that said, is AS more valuable early game on a character like vayne than flat AD? Not sure.  Def not good on most champs.  I'm not sure there is an easy answer.  Because you have to play vayne a bit different due to her low ad range and only single target abilities, she can get picked apart when going for last hits.  This prompts me to occassionally add an extra aa in here and there on creeps to avoid having the enemy adc get a free shot at me when I cs.  When played like that, the additional AS is more useful for last hitting (at least for me) than straight up AD.  With cait, the only benefit would be faster proc's of her passive early, but she has no issue just last hitting and I prefer running AD on her.  All of that said, I'm certainly not experienced with vayne and that's simply how I'm adapting to increase my cs in lane without taking poke. 

Anywho, keeping that stuff in mind, you think AD/AP/AS would be more useful on vayne knowing that she's always going to have to some work to do in lane early game and is at risk?

on Feb 24, 2013

AS blues are one of the best blues you can go for if you're doing damage. They are actually really really good on junglers, the problem is just that most junglers cannot afford to give up MR. 

---

i was being a little bit "too" generic regarding ArP reds - Kog'maw as an example is probably better with something else. But he is weird. 

---

re: Vayne's W

Tumble is an autoattack reset (auto > Q > auto) applies 2 stacks really fast and isn't affected by AS since the reset.

Condemn also applies a "ring" so auto > Q > auto > E is the best burst Vayne has for quick trades (and pushes the opponent away so that they can't counter).

---

re: AS as a dps increase versus other marks

 

AS reds only improve autoattacks. AD/ArP improves autoattacks as well as abilities (unless you're Kog). 

AS reds only have very specific increases in damage if it isn't a very prolonged engagement. 

It's a piecewise function

As you can see, you increase you damage for brief parts of a second, then your opponent "catches up". 

That graph was assuming a default attack speed of 1 second, and a 10% AS boost. The exact numbers don't really matter - they will all look the same. Higher % increases will obviously converge faster to their "true" value. 

That function is also comparing to someone no red runes, no abilities, no ignite, no repositioning. 

AD/ArP runes are stronger with abilities, Ignite allows for "overkill" where very small increases in damage end up not mattering, and AS runes lose more damage to positioning. 


To clarify, between the .9 and 1.0 second you have double the damage, because you autoattacked twice when they haven't yet. However, between the 1.0 and 1.8 second, you both have done the exact same amount of autos, so there is no damage difference. 1.8 - 2.0 seconds, you have auto'd 3 times, but they have only done it 2 times. So you're 50% ahead. Then they autoattack a third time and you are equal again.

 

This graph gets a lot more sad against people with actual runes.

You start out behind (at the 0 second mark when you both auto'd, their auto hurt more). 

At the .9 - 1.0 second, you have like a 90% increase in damage. However, when they get their second auto, they are ahead from 1.0 - 1.8. 

Then you pass at 1.8, so you're say, 40% ahead. Oh, but they catch up at the 2.0. Now you're behind again. 

2.7, you pass again. Say, 28%. Then at 3.0, they are ahead again. 

 

Abilities make this even brutal. 

 

TL;DR: Vampiric Scepter + 2x Doran's Blade = noob trap.  Build literally anything but that.

 
 
is a really really really really really really bad conclusion. 
 
They are evaluating damage only against a 100% stationary target. THEY AREN'T EVEN CONSIDERING ArPen. THEY ARE SAYING LIKE IT DOES NO DAMAGE. LIKE YOU DONT EVEN HAVE RUNES.

They are giving ZERO benefit for the hp the Dorans give, and the Lifesteal. They are also using a "punctuated autoattack" approach like me (eg, a piecewise function).
 
The difference is instead of comparing the piecewise functions to each other, they are comparing it against an extremely arbitrary target. TTK AGAINST AN ARBITRARY TARGET IS A REALLY STUPID WAY TO COMPARE DPS VALUES. This is because of the nature of piecewise functions. 
 
They are saying "oh it takes 16 autoattacks to kill this random target". That isn't a good way to do it.
 
Now, this sort of piecewise math requires like advanced calculus and shit when it comes to comparing it against eachother.
 
And ArPen is really difficult to measure because it doesn't increase your raw numbers as much as AD, but what it does do is reduce the effective hp of the target, so you have to do less damage to kill.
 
A better way to compare ArP/no ArP is "% of effective hp done per second". That's a lot of work.
 
---
 
Now, i agree that it is a weaker build because it takes so long to get going. But Blade + Vamp isn't a weak build. 
on Feb 24, 2013

awuffleablehedgie
is a really really really really really really bad conclusion.

oh - plenty of people disagreed with their conclusion on that, believe me.  thx for the info

on Feb 24, 2013

yay!  karl has been promoted to silver 3.  Just won his last promo series game.  grats!

on Feb 25, 2013

a few random thoughts

1 - I don't know how many of you have seen AP trynd, but its easily one of the most annoying things to play against.  The reason is that his heal has like a 1.5% ap raito... which translations into some pretty sick healing.  Basically he becomes a more annoying version of singed.  The fact that I have seen this build is actually because of some jackass on reddit posting about it some time back and then I think a plat player doing an ama about how he only plays ap trynd.  Then we get all the jagoffs that decide they want to try it out.  Anyway, good riddance whenever the patch goes live.  Seems obv that riot never intended for ap trynd... that ap ratio is kind of sick, though.  Tell you what - if I ever find something that is secret op - I'm going going to post that shit on reddit...

2 - so I lied about not playing vayne in ranked.  Played 1 game and won 1 game with her in ranked.  I actually got worked over a smidge in the laning phase and then locked down kill after kill once we were out of laning.  I focused as best I could on farming during laning and managed to keep up at least. 

3 - another thing I noticed that happens more at higher levels - people don't give up as easily.  Now, I'm sure this isn't in all cases, but I've had plenty of games recently that could have gone the other way - and that way is one guy gets ass kicked in lane, whines and blames people, gets everyone riled, and then under performs all game. Lately, I'm seeing either more even lanes, or people that get bullied coming back and being useful.  I think that's one of the reason why I like vayne - you get her farmed up and you can still tear things up even if you had a smeh start.  Which is much unlike draven.  Draven is a champ that if you do well early, you steam roll to mid/late. You fail early and he's often rot.

on Feb 25, 2013

I played one game against an AP tryn and I laned against him. I fucking raped him so I was incredibly unimpressed. Nasus to stronk. AP tryn = zero damage tryn. Zone him away from creep so he can't build rage.

 

on Feb 25, 2013

"I played one game against an AP tryn and I laned against him. I fucking raped him so I was incredibly unimpressed."

Sounds like you were going against one of the copycat "jagoffs" Pacov was talking about, cause it is a real thing. I was watching All I Do Is Win or whatever the high level player who mains AP Tryn is, and he's impressive.  Even though I've watched a few games where he gets beat up in lane like you said, he tends to come back and become a split pushing nightmare for the other team.  Great escapes, hard to kill, "lawnmowers" entire creep waves instantly, great healing, and he melts towers when he gets his LB.

Just cause you beat someone who wanted to hop on the FotM bandwagon who thought AP Tryn was free elo, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

I think they're trying to transfer the base ratio to have it scale with rage, so he can't just heal out of nowhere.

on Feb 25, 2013

Thundercles
ust cause you beat someone who wanted to hop on the FotM bandwagon who thought AP Tryn was free elo, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

yeah - its always a matter of who's playing him.  I've only encountered 1 copy cat recently and he covered the annoying angle quite well.  I think I was jungle vi in that game and he just kept split pushing over and over.  You go to deal with him and he just runs around like a jackass.  Almost a more mobile nidalee that reappears with full hp if you don't kill them 20 seconds later.  The guy wasn't particularly smart or amazing, but made a nuisance of himself.  Again - why I'm not a fan of folks on reddit posting about shite like that.  That said, it got riot to address it pretty quickly.  I get a feeling that All I do is Win will be losing soon.  He's the real loser with the nerf.  Everyone else gets to be a winner by not having to deal with that rot. 

other thing - I wasn't 100% sold on breaking away from the AS rune setup I was using on vayne, but I think I'm sold now and will just adapt to the slower AA's at level 1.  I don't think the payout is worth it.  I'll probably just go back to AD runes, but might go for Armor Pen as I'm already used to farming as her with the lower base damage. 

I guess in the tournaments, its become really common for adc's to start with dorians blade, which I found interesting.  I was starting with that quite a bit but decided to skip it some time back in favor of long sword + 2 pots.  Not sure if I should rotate back to using it or not or make it situational.  Typically, when I'm adc, I won't even pick up a single db and will just wait out for a stronger item.  Not sure what I'll do, but I'll probably start going dorians if I'm with someone that has a heal mayhaps. 

Also - karl needs to start playing vi in jungle while she's still on the op bandwagon.  Any jungler that has like an 80% of securing a kill should be used imo.  I expect we'll see some sort of nerf on her, but not sure what.  CD on the ult prob needs to go up a bit.  Range on ult prob needs to go up a bit.  Honestly, I think if you remove the knockup on her ult for anyone she passes thru on the way to her target (or substantially reduce that damage), she'd be more in line.  Really surprised I haven't read about proposed nerfs. 

So thunder, when are you going to be back playing again?  I know you said your net blows where you are, but I didn't catch how long you are where you are.  Haven't had a chance to play with you in a long time.

on Feb 25, 2013

I think AP tryn has counters and people just don't know how to adapt. Reminds me of how flavor of the month AD mids have been and people still don't rush seekers arm guards and counter with ryze or other tanky ap mids. 

On that note I think the whole idea of AP tryn is pretty silly I am glad they are doing something about him because it sort of defeats tryndamere's whole design purpose - AD melee carry.  

on Feb 25, 2013

@Pacov

The way I look at it is that DB is the best if you can get away with it, as in you won't get beat up and zoned by a stronger early game support/ADC combo... and if you do, you have a sustain support who can at least get you to a point where you can get enough health back to safely use the DB on hit sustain to get back in the lane.

Since you like to play Draven, I'm guessing you might not appreciate DB as much as you could since forgoing one and just buying boots and Vamp first trip back is fine on Draven cause of his Q, when rushing Vamp without a DB is not always the best choice on other ADCs IMO.  

And in Chaox's opinion as well.  Or maybe I just copy the pros like all the other sheep who play this game. "800G is a huge sink, only get it if you absolutely need sustain to survive in lane. Otherwise just sit on the Long sword."  

But yeah, think about what you're getting for 400:  10% Lifesteal  For 475? 5 Health Lifesteal and lotsa other stuff.  Sure, that 10% will far outscale the DB eventually, but not as soon as people think.  Say you have 100 AD (You'll have less when you first get back to lane assuming an early shopping trip), that means the Vamp gives you 10% LS and DB 5%?  Only if the opponent doesn't have armor, so yes with last hitting but no with trades and harassment... unless you're Draven and do crazy early damage from spinning axes.

Yeah I get massive lag spikes at my parents house every once in a while, even when plugged in to the modem direct... but it's mostly some other things going on too.  My situation might be changing soon, but in the meantime I'll mostly just be lurking around since I can't really commit to an uninterrupted game.  If you're getting into Vayne, we should try her and Thresh out.  I hit a chain, send out a lantern... all of a sudden you're in perfect Condemn position?

@Cow

Having counters doesn't mean balanced.  You need in game counter play and counter building, and it is simply not fun to have a situation where you're saying in the loading screen "Well... we don't have one of the few champs that can handle Champion X, so we lose.  This is such a fun game..."

Sure champs counter other champs all the time, that's part of the game's strategy... but it has to not get out of hand.

on Feb 25, 2013

didn't read anything since my last post - will check out later tonight

going to stream some of quinn on PBE in about 5 min.  Going to play for about 20 min on PBE then switch over to normal lol - come watch if you want to see more of how quinn works... i'll be jibba jabbing a bit.  1st time trying her out.

http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1

 

on Feb 25, 2013

I played one game against an AP tryn and I laned against him. I fucking raped him so I was incredibly unimpressed. Nasus to stronk. AP tryn = zero damage tryn. Zone him away from creep so he can't build rage.

 
 
The guy you played against - Madra - is unranked, and that was his first game of Tryna this entire month (so probably the only time he ever played AP Trynd). He also mains ADC.
 
He didn't even build him correctly. 
 
You would have beaten him regardless. Player skill goes a long way. 
 
Anecdotal evidence too stronk.
 

I think AP tryn has counters and people just don't know how to adapt. Reminds me of how flavor of the month AD mids have been and people still don't rush seekers arm guards and counter with ryze or other tanky ap mids. 


AD mids haven't been FotM nearly as much since Seeker's Armgaurd + the most recent BC nerfs. 

Remember Seekers has only been our for 4 weeks (and, again, AD mids are way less popular now). 

Most competent players build Seekers anyway, so you're pretty off-target there.
 
 

I guess in the tournaments, its become really common for adc's to start with dorians blade, which I found interesting.  I was starting with that quite a bit but decided to skip it some time back in favor of long sword + 2 pots.  Not sure if I should rotate back to using it or not or make it situational.  Typically, when I'm adc, I won't even pick up a single db and will just wait out for a stronger item.  Not sure what I'll do, but I'll probably start going dorians if I'm with someone that has a heal mayhaps. 

 
 
i really like Dorans for longer ranged carries (Ez, Caitlyn, Kog). You don't see them as often in tournaments on other carries except in 2v1 lanes.
 
i'm not sure if Vayne can survive with a Dorans.
 
 
Also - karl needs to start playing vi in jungle while she's still on the op bandwagon.  Any jungler that has like an 80% of securing a kill should be used imo.  I expect we'll see some sort of nerf on her, but not sure what.  CD on the ult prob needs to go up a bit. 


There are already nerfs on PBE for her - they are weakening her base AD by like 2, as well as reducing the % damage on her W.

They are also nerfing SotEL a little bit which is a core item on her. 
 
 
Having counters doesn't mean balanced.


Not to mention picking order in SoloQ is rarely the same as in Tournaments. Tourny players tend to prioritize strong priority picks, then safe picks, then easily counterable picks. 

SoloQ tends to do a mix of bandwagoning champs and whatever the fuck they want. 
 


on Feb 25, 2013

okay well now the quotes don't work and i don't know how to edit posts

gg Stardock

 

Hopefully all can understand me

on Feb 25, 2013

awuffleablehedgie
i'm not sure if Vayne can survive with a Dorans.

she can with lifesteal quints - not sure if that's even remotely optimal - still playing around.

on Feb 25, 2013

i f'king love LS quints.

<3333

 

i always use them on Kog all the time (though i don't build BT/BotRK on him - after the BotRK buffs i probably will again).

 

The problem i ran into with LS quints + Dorans is that you're deceptively weak level 1/2 because of the lack of AD quints.

i used to use that combo with Varus, until one day an Ez went 100% crazy stupid all-in level 2 after landing a Q - and demolished me (they did do double golems, but i'm pretty sure i was level 2 at the same time).

Then the lane was over. 

 

So i stopped using it on him. i suspect that there is a similar story behind using Dorans + LS on Vayne. 

334 PagesFirst 178 179 180 181 182  Last