So, I'm not like super annoyed, but I'm annoyed.  I tried to laugh things off, but last game of the night after literally asking people to play something a bit more serious results in cow going gp mid and sydragon going mao top. smeh.  Not a fan.  Think I actually had fun in like 2 games out of 5 tonight.  Quite a bit of lag.. game 1 I got to jungle and the rest I played support.  Literally 3 games of fail shit due to people picking shit with me supporting said shit.  I already knew sy was a bit of an arse...

Ah well.  Not going to play with sy for a bit at least. 

I am the only one that played well that game. 

i don't know what order you picked GP (i presume it was after the Karthus because you wanted to make sure to beat him in lane, which is a reasonable goal).

The legitament beef that pacov could have with GP is that he doesn't have any defensive waveclear until he gets Stattik. Espiecially against a Lulu + Karthus, you have to be absolutely sure that botlane does well because otherwise they will rotate midlane after a quick bot tower and then get 2 early towers off of it.

For whatever reason, C9 + Pacov just were not clicking botlane.

i'm not trashing on your GP mid since i know you play it as well as it can be played, but unless you picked that really early (before the Gragas, Ashe), i think you would have been better off with Ziggs/Brand and just killing Karthus from far away while matching his farm. Of course, maybe you're just bored of Ziggs, Brand...

I don't know man.  I might be naive but I think you put way way too much stake into these sorta things.  Yes, if that had been an LCS game then Cow's GP mid pick would have left his team really hamstrung for taking towers and such later on.  But it wasn't, was a solo queue normal where I don't think that matters as much.  Could be wrong though. 

I know you want Cow to better understand how a pick like GP affects the rest of the team in changing the mid and late game dynamics, but that game isn't the example you want to use.  Karl was the only one in the game who was playing a strong champion, and the three other people were playing very... umm interesting champions... with... ummm... very interesting builds.  Them having a rough time in lane wasn't caused by Cow picking GP mid.

well you can hardly blame bot lane crumbling based off of your midlane pick

Unless it's something like Fizz v TF.

i suppose my point was mostly focused on why pacov would be unhappy with a GP. Pacov enjoys those strong, independent midlaners who don't need no-help (or blues!), and i'd argue that GP is probably one of the strongest laning midlaners you can offer, which is why he's a decent pick against Karthus. However, he still flounders in the 3v1, which was pretty much what was required of him that game.

Honestly, Psydragon was the only really problematic person that whole night. His entire thing all night was playing as obnoxious as he possibly can for you (with the exception of his Quinn top. While people might not like Quinn top, he is a really good Quinn and if he's playing her you know he is at least trying hard).

And i suppose people "responded" with his trolling by doing stuff like playing a new (?) champ (or Jayce bot). Which is a pretty good way to respond to nonsense? i mean you've got two options: try hard and carry, or open up a new can of beer and play something new. Or dodge.

Also - I wouldn't put too much stock into me being a little salty after some pissers of games.  I, much like earth, consider gp a trash pick, mind you.  And I'm pretty sure dr cow here knows that at least I believe gp to be a trash pick - so picking him after a request for a more serious team comp is a bit trollish.  I'm pretty well over it, though. And at any rate, just salty - just a series of frustrating games running as a support.

I felt that GP was a very solid pick with our team. We had a strong frontline with amumu and mao kai so I could build pure damage and get away with it. I also liked GP vs Karthus since GP is a lane bully when played mid. We had a very heavy magic damage team comp already with mao, amumu and gragas so I thought the extra AD was a nice touch (my zed is bad and pantheon also crossed my mind when making the decision). I made this decision based on what everyone had picked since I was the last pick in champ select. GP was a solid choice in this game. I bullied Karthus very hard in lane and was up 20 CS on him by about 10 minutes. Perhaps if I went pantheon mid I could of snowballed our team but if I picked pantheon mid I am sure it would of been met with the same reaction as my GP mid.

I disagree and would have appreciated you playing a champ that might be useful in game outside of laning. I do want to clarify that this is less about you personally and more about me being frustrated.  That said...

... I believe GP is a trash champion.  He can do well vs certain match ups but you are pretty much deciding right then and there at champ select that other lanes would have to win the game. 

Pros of gp

• you get an easy laning phase. 
• He can eat an orange if he does something stupid or needs a small amount of sustain.
• He can farm pretty easily and get extra gold due to his q
• He can ult to farm a wave from a distance
• He provides a minor buff for the team
• You can build him several ways (all of which are largely useless ofc)

Cons of gp

• his ult is trash and extremely low damage
• His q is very short range.    
• He has no reliable damage (ults can actually hit no one on the enemy team or just proc a single hit and his q relies on crit chance for a boost)
• He can only hurt the enemy team with q's or autos.  Compare that to a mage with 3-4 abilities that do actual damage. 

People usually build him and play him like a retarded adc.  You build adc items on him - yet he only generally procs using his q (like a ranged aa)... except he can only do that ranged aa when cooldown is off.. so, he's essentially a complete POS adc. 

He's a garbage champion.  You play him for fun.  Not to help teams out.  That's my take anyway.  And yeah - pantheon would have been a better pick along with most other ad champions imo.  Even if you ran an adc out of mid, with out comp, that would have been substantially superior imo. 

edit - fixed my pro con list a bit

Well, most mages only have 3 damage abilities. In fact, ranged champions with 4 damage abilities are extremely rare and are pretty much limited to tanks, bruisers and the occasional assassin.

And he tends to rush a Stattik Shiv which is basically a an additional ability, so you can't neglect that.

bah - I can marginalize it by saying that he can barely use the stats on static shiv and that item would be substantially better on an adc.  Anyway, be on later

Huh? SS is an item for ADCs with poor waveclear (or want to augment the teams waveclear) or powerful AS scaling with weaker Crit scaling (champs with no AD ratios who didn't build IE and decided to go BotRK or Trinity instead).

Stuff like Vayne, Trist or Kogmaw.

The reason SS is a weaker item on ADCs is because they don't need abilities to do damage. They don't benefit as much from the additional base damage on an 8 second CD.

Gragas support when built glass is non-viable.  People shouldn't get frustrated with their teammates picks unless they're playing something semi-viable IMO, especially when it's something like GP that at least have some strengths.

Maybe Glass Cannon Support Gragas is better in level 4 LAN games though?

120 AD for the team, for 7 seconds.  That could be the whole team fight.  GP's one of those "if your team sucks you're fucked" champs but he's hardly trash.  He's got nice peel, good damage from q without having to build for it, extra income potential, and is a natural tank with his get out of CC free card.  Sure, you'll probably only hit people for 400 damage or so with your ult, but if you dropped that on the entire team in the middle of a dive for your carries, you just hit them all with 6 seconds of a 25% slow, while boosting your allies and knocking one of the carries down to half health or lower after your damned q crits for a thousand or so.

He only needs two damage items to be a carry killer, doesn't need to be a glass cannon.

As you like, thunder.  My gragas build was crap, I do enjoy playing on Lan and enjoy leveling my account as I mentioned before, and I disagree that people shouldn't get frustrated if their builds are bad with people picking crappy champs.  Anything to offer to the gp is "viable" discussion?  Sorry I still want to participate in that discussion even though my graggy build was shite. 

re: SS - I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make, hedgie.  GP has to go this rubbish build, where he can't make use of all the stats on the items he picks up - all to try to proc his q.  It's just stupid.  So he spends 2500 on ss because he was awful wave clear to get better wave clear - and that also turns into how he tries to team fight generally.  So, for 250 he gets 100 magic dmg for wave clear, 40% attack speed which is mostly useful for pushing towers, 20% crit chance + 6% ms. 

If we can't really discuss his seemingly (to me) blatant weaknesses, does anyone actually want a gp on their team?  Any of you? Oh - I hope we get a gp as he will bring quite a bit to the team? 

You saw that he built an IE after SS right? That's making pretty full use of the crit damage, and IE amplifies the damage of SS as well.

And all champs (except supports) have to buy items to do things? What ADC has this awesome built-in lifesteal that they don't have to build to make up for it?

You have two ways to beat Karthus:

1- beat the absolute crap out of him in laning phase and close the game before 40 minutes so he is irrelevant

2- match/out-farm him and outpoke his team

GP actually has better poke than Karthus, and GP is really good at beating the crap out of Karthus. Do i want a GP on my team normally? No. Are there more well-rounded picks out there that would do really well against Karthus? Yes.

i think that i've demonstrated the ability to argue both sides of the coin here, and i've pointed out strengths and weaknesses of GP before you brought out the list.

The core argument, however, is an emotional one: that Cow was no longer playing serious just because he picked GP (and that the GP pick is an auto-loss). i believe that is incorrect.

Not to mention, there's lots of builds that focus on just one ability. Legolas Varus? Hurricane + Nashors Kayle? Every Kassadin build?

Finally, finally: if i had to have a GP on my team, i'd far rather have Cow play it than someone else.