I feel ya, Karl. I do learn in a stomp. Maybe not much, but I do. If I'm learning a champs builds/mechanics or something, sure normals is where to do it (the only exception I can remember is a poppy game I played). However, after that I don't feel much self-improvement in normals (maybe useless matchup data, but players can make up any difference there). There's usually more troll set-ups in normals than a cheesuscrust game: shacos and teemo, tops with ignite, full ap supports, etc. 

I see your points, and see that we view ranked differently.  If climbing was my main objective, I'd probably only play normals forever because I'd want to perfect every champion before trying ranked. Saddly, metas change too frequently, and communication and objective control (with randoms) is not something you can be perfect at. Ultimately, I learn best in ranked with people I know. I always try my best, but am not going to be upset if I lose. 

I do respect your feelings on it, so we should maybe communicate ahead of time what kind of game we're planning on playing. If I end up having to play mid or adc, we probably shouldn't play together. If I am planning on playing a champ I'm not super-experienced with, we can either not play, or I can accommodate and switch to champion I do know. Up to you, bud. I like ya, and enjoy playing with all of you folks. I wasn't trying to start a fight earlier, but I see issues and I'm not really biased (I love you and pacov equally), so I wanted you guys to know what I saw. 

@Thunder - I miss you.

God bless clarifications of pointed remarks that briefly got under my skin. Honestly, thanks for that.   It' appreciated.

re: karl's points - I do think it is perfectly fair to point out that I am vacillating a bit here... I guess after a fashion.  

I guess without getting into a case by case basis thing (at least initially), try to keep in mind exactly what i'm going for - which I think is a good goal as well.  Having fun playing league of legends - ideally with pals and its ok if not.  My goal is to first and foremost, do whatever I can to work on myself and any toxic behavior.  And that goes back to the harsh way I worded things previously like culling some folks I play with, playing less with some, etc.  Still keeping in mind that I actually like all you folks, but if playing less or not at all helps reduce toxicity and helps folks generally have more fun, I'm all for it.  

Now, earlier before all the replies, I jibbered about my multiple accounts and pondering bringing my main account into the fray at cost to my elo.  The higher elo account just plays to my ego and currently helps me as a demarcation.  I guess I'm thinking a little more of things as a bigger picture now and perhaps i need to reel that back in a little.

IDK... I think its totally OK if karl wants to avoid playing ranked some of us or even just me of course.  I'm not bothered or offended.  I'm open to discussing things and don't think I have all the answers (I've been trying to figure all this out and plot the best course).  I'm even down with reevaluating things.  But I whatever is discussed, etc, I really want to stay core to the whole lets have fun hanging out and playing games without OMFGBBQ.  I can definitely influence folks like karls into the tilt town and having no fun and that's no good.  Anyway, I really am up for discussing this stuff and seeing what folks think, if they have solutions outside of naw dawg, let's not play together.  Keeping full well in mind that I came to EXACTLY that conclusion previously.  

If the goal is to hang out and have fun with pals and screw around there is a wonderful game mode for that.  Normals.  Or maybe ARAM.

The thing that sets me off more than anything is the real inconsistency.  If we want to build silly items its "LOL, we are just having fun".  If we want to do a 1 man rush of their base on support while losing our own, its "HAHA, its just for funsies".  If we want to play a really strange support with no practice full AP, its just good times.

But if somebody else does it...  Then there is complaining or trolling.  It is absolutely not acceptable for other people to do the exact same things that we do.  Can you honestly say that you would be OK if your teammates acted in the way that you do in ranked games?

In fact, we avoid normal games for the same stuff that we do in ranked games.

So my question is: with everything that has been said here, why aren't we playing normals?  At some point we are just the trolls that people on reddit complain about, and it honestly does bother me.  I hate being *that guy* in ranked games.

in between games so just quick comment - I kind of remember what normals used to be - the weird try hard mode for some while it was cool for others to f about.  

Well, even though we threw, I thought that everybody was trying to win and everything so that made the game fun at least.  Throws happen sometimes.

Well, yesterday was full of fun, easy games for the most part.  I feel like i played really well (and rito was kind enough to match me mostly against poopers).  I tried out zyra mid and I've got to say I like it.  My opponent was not good, but zoning and controlling was actually really easy with plants.  She definitely feels like the type of champ that would get steamrolled if you misposition and get camped a bit.  

Continuing to think about the whole multiple accounts thing (specifically my higher elo 1 and the 1 I'm playing on now - gold 3 or so).  Gold 3 is completely carefree - no stress, no anxiety, just fun.  Anyway, I was wondering at what point I'll actually start to care... like is there a tipping point where boom, I hit plat IV and now its suddenly no longer my fun account or what.  IDK.  All the games yesterday were a blast though.  Really fun time after kind of a shitty day, so that was nice.

Random off topic - here's what my wife and I had for dinner yesterday - was really good and easy to make - https://ddw4dkk7s1lkt.cloudfront.net/card/5703c4b6f8b25e9b578b4568.pdf?t=20160512124125

I play Irelia.  I always play to dominate the insects who would dare to pick champions I hate playing against like Darius and Nasus.  Irelia is The Way.  Irelia is the mighty Artifact of Power.

The heralds of Irelia have splendidly ushered in the Age of Happy Bryff.  The long ago E nerf has reverted in the form of a most powerful Q buff that yet desires the level 13 max.  The core Trinity Force has obtained the CDR and letting deference of the melancholy abeit holy Frozen Heart.

Doing AD tank items are great.  They enhance the diving and assassinating viability.

Black Cleaver is good.  It has CDR and damage and hp!

Sterak's is good.  It doesn't give quite the AD, but it gives the most dive friendly survivability.

Titanic Hydra works as a third choice.

Dead man's plate can replace Frozen Heart with the presence of Black Cleaver.

Spirit Visage is great, and Maw can be taken over it on occasion.  That's if you don't take the rare BoTRK

Boots is a per game.

Going on over 3500 HP and having armor shred, damage, RAGE, and sub 4 second Q.  It think I like this way the most.

You like?

Saw this and I thought i'd pass it along

TIL if you dodge a normal game then dodge a ranked in the same day, you'll lose 10 LP as if you dodged two ranked queues. 

uh oh - support zyra is currently the #5 highest win rate champ in league at 53.3%.

1.voli (53.9)

2. amumu

3.skar

4.fid

5.zyra

6.malz

7.ahri

8.blitz

9.ASH (??? 52.7%)

10. sej

Most pop champ in the game?  Lucian - 43.2% pick rate out of all games (#easy/safe adc imo).  Win rate up a little to 50.7%

well... a 9 game win streak tonight puts me at 48 LP in gold 1 on my alt.  Honestly, my biggest f up is playing support on this acct to f about.  I've been spamming a bit of Zyra and can get away with all sorts of awful things.  I do this on my proper acct and boom - bad times.  

All said and done, I'm really glad I did go through a zyra spamming phase pre rework.  I have a decent skill level with her now and she's actually a bit OP imo.  She's squishy as fug as a support during early laning.  If she is not punished for that, if she hits rylai... enjoy.  I'm trying to figure out the best counter to her.  I think ezreal is a decent pick against her as he can duck out of her dps.  For a support, I'm not entirely sure.  Could go hard engage or janna.  It's probably best if you see a zyra bot (that knows what they are doing anyway) to ask your jungler to pick off early/mid.

hue.. op gg has my mmr on this acct higher than my main atm.  idk..

well... karl wisely buggered off when he did tonight. Feel pretty bad I didn't get dr thunder some wins tho.  When I played well, it wasn't good enough and then I played like crap.  Was the night of 2 awful lucians doing really well. 

Also, I like it when folks get how they f'd up.  I'm actually very confident I screwed thunder in our last game with some agro calls. Always best to know what you did wrong.  Easier to avoid tilt anyway. Anyway, I owe you an all star support game.  Y

Anyway, fun playing with you folks tonight. Sorry it wasn't better though.  Night all!

Another day of being a so, so support.  I get super excited when I get a chance to play zyra, but its becoming very common to see her banned or picked now.   Bit of a bummer when getting to play her is my "super fun" condition.  Not much worth talking about. New patch coming, nothing too exciting there.  Cass might be stronk.  gold 1 on my alt account. Boaz appeared again last night, but I had to bugger off as it was too late.  

new champ is really enjoyable to play.. so far