Pacov's place to enjoy the show.

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/454943/

Please join me if you like.

 

 

 


 

 

Am I streaming


 

 

Well, I started a thread  back in August (https://forums.joeuser.com/411269/) that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheiRB76x5g
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

 

Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow - http://www.lolking.net/guides/7906

Comments (Page 260)
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on Aug 05, 2013

I also disagree with the 2v1 top we did.

I just watched the replay for when you killed hunny. He sat on the Caitlyn trap at 200 hp next to 3 enemies which included an Aatrox. The only reason we got those towers is because he misplayed heavily.

on Aug 05, 2013

#towers.

The only reason you got that mid tower was because of GP lack of wave-clear (not that it i exactly "dishonorable" take advantage of that - but you wouldn't have gotten that tower against someone like Anivia - and when you were talking about the 2v1 in the pre-game you never once mentioned GP's poor waveclear).

We got your mid tower @14:20. So that's a 2 minute advantage of 2 towers in exchange for 1 dragon (2 towers for 1 dragon is certainly a good trade, but again, only for 2 minutes. Then it is 1 tower for 1 dragon which is a more-or-less equal trade). 

Then we got the 2nd dragon @ 17:20.

You even say yourself at 18 minutes that you are equal-at-best for the dragon/tower trades. 

 

Then we take your outer mid @21:30 which means we are two dragons ahead for no difference in towers. 

At this arbitrary time point in time i can say with the 100% pacov confidence that the swap didn't work in your favor. 

 

(then we got dragon at 24:00). 

 

 

 

on Aug 05, 2013

awuffleablehedgie
You even say yourself at 18 minutes that you are equal-at-best for the dragon/tower trades.

That was someone else that sounds exactly like me. I'm 100% sure.

I'm also pretty sure there was never a let's give them all the dragons strategy.  There was a rush all outer towers strat that I was going to do whatever I could to pull off.  The initial swap was responsible for the loss of exactly 1 dragon.  Every missed dragon after that did not have a heck of a lot to do with the initial heavy aggression towards towers. The FACT that we successfully pulled that off in 12 minutes remains as does the FACT that we failed to follow up/contest most dragons, had poor positioning here and there, etc. 

Obviously the goal of my lane swap was achieved and would not have happened that way without the swap.  So, you can calculate to a T exactly when you were able to overcome the initial success of the loss of your 3 outer towers.  I don't really see any need to deny that - but I can still point to how successful the strategy was - even though it was apparently impossible to pull off unless shen went full retard, bot lane folded quickly when we pushed that tower, and your team choose to run a gp out of mid. 

You can have an excellent opening in a game and then follow up with bone head moves.  Calculating the moment the advantage was lost doesn't make the opening bad. 

on Aug 05, 2013

OMG_Shiro
I also disagree with the 2v1 top we did.

I just watched the replay for when you killed hunny. He sat on the Caitlyn trap at 200 hp next to 3 enemies which included an Aatrox. The only reason we got those towers is because he misplayed heavily.

I do want to throw this out as well.  In prior games that same evening, hunny was playing god awful out of top and got wrecked (I think we actually lost the game prior to our in house due to top lane wrecking him severely).  I also don't believe he's had to deal with 2v1 setups very much and expected he would lose his tower quickly.  Jayce would have easily won the lane, but I don't believe we would have gotten the tower down as quickly.  I choose the lane swap precisely because I saw it as an opportunity to score a quick tower and then quickly rotate to the remaining outer towers.  Conventional wisdom would not be to put a 2v1 lane against shen unless you were very confident you'd be able to either get a kill or drop the tower quickly - I generally agree with conventional wisdom here - but the strategy paid off; we scored 1st blood on shen and then took the tower.   That said, you see the strong end game numbers on shen/gp.  I still think it was a solid decision that panned out for us nicely.  Much of the rest of the game did not go as well, ofc. 

On unrelated ranked news - karl's been putting some time into ranked and still seems a bit driven.  Last I checked he was like 56 lp in silver 1.  Zen climbed back up to gold I.  Our new pal, danknee, hit plat 4.  brad's still in unranked limbo placement matches.  bryff is 70 lp or so in silver 1.  I'm currently not super motivated but need to get my put in gear if I'm going to hit plat V this season. 

 

on Aug 05, 2013

The demigod portal is back up - looks like it was just some weekend maintenance.  FYI

on Aug 05, 2013

so - this meteos player is apparently the IT jungler atm.  Does anyone have any good VODs of him doing anything particularly good?  I've watched a few vids now and have not seen anything all that special or learned much sadly.  Anything in particular that sets him apart?

on Aug 05, 2013

That was someone else that sounds exactly like me. I'm 100% sure.

I'm also pretty sure there was never a let's give them all the dragons strategy. There was a rush all outer towers strat that I was going to do whatever I could to pull off. The initial swap was responsible for the loss of exactly 1 dragon. Every missed dragon after that did not have a heck of a lot to do with the initial heavy aggression towards towers. The FACT that we successfully pulled that off in 12 minutes remains as does the FACT that we failed to follow up/contest most dragons, had poor positioning here and there, etc.

Obviously the goal of my lane swap was achieved and would not have happened that way without the swap. So, you can calculate to a T exactly when you were able to overcome the initial success of the loss of your 3 outer towers. I don't really see any need to deny that - but I can still point to how successful the strategy was - even though it was apparently impossible to pull off unless shen went full retard, bot lane folded quickly when we pushed that tower, and your team choose to run a gp out of mid.

Whats happening is that people are basically pointing out that you are engaging in causal reductionism .  That is, you insist on a single cause (the lane swap) for certain events, when it is much more likely that there are many causes, at least some of which you couldn't have known about ahead of time.

In general, we get into a lot of situations where you argue that because something worked, it was a good idea.  And you argue that because something didn't turn out great, it was a bad idea.  It is very dangerous to draw general conclusions from this type of argument since the logic just doesn't work out in a situation with imperfect knowledge ahead of time and imperfect play on the parts of players.

Your argument seems to be pretty inconsistent in that you want to use the results of the match when the results support your argument, but reject the use of the actual game results when they do not support your argument.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm not commenting on this situation in particular.  Also, I agree with your argument that lane swapping to force Hunny into a 1v2 is a good idea since I do not think that he is a particularly strong solo lane player (he does better bot it seems).

on Aug 05, 2013

Edited: Tried to make an analogy for Karl's rather droll post.  Didn't like how it read.

 

on Aug 06, 2013

off to bed - will read tomorrow.  got back into zac jungle - reasonable successful

Here's a vod brad requested - I think its the right one - http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2699823

If that's not the one, the whole night's games are here:  http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/b/441397501

 

 

Here's a link to my best zac jungle game ever (the 12/0/6 listed in the pic) - a few shout outs to mr karl here and there:  http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/c/2699872

 

on Aug 06, 2013

Lol. I want the base race from yesterday where we almost lost. I was Elise if that helps.

on Aug 06, 2013

OMG_Shiro

Lol. I want the base race from yesterday where we almost lost. I was Elise if that helps.

Asks me to do something when I'm about to go to bed; gets bad results.  Anywho - I'll see about uploading that after work.

on Aug 06, 2013

Krazikarl
Whats happening is that people are basically pointing out that you are engaging in causal reductionism . That is, you insist on a single cause (the lane swap) for certain events, when it is much more likely that there are many causes, at least some of which you couldn't have known about ahead of time.

In general, we get into a lot of situations where you argue that because something worked, it was a good idea. And you argue that because something didn't turn out great, it was a bad idea. It is very dangerous to draw general conclusions from this type of argument since the logic just doesn't work out in a situation with imperfect knowledge ahead of time and imperfect play on the parts of players.

Your argument seems to be pretty inconsistent in that you want to use the results of the match when the results support your argument, but reject the use of the actual game results when they do not support your argument.

I haven't watched the game, so I'm not commenting on this situation in particular. Also, I agree with your argument that lane swapping to force Hunny into a 1v2 is a good idea since I do not think that he is a particularly strong solo lane player (he does better bot it seems).

Try looking at things this way and then anyone can respond.  Forget the specific game that was the topic for a bit (game 2 in house from a few days back).  Let's say someone makes a call on an opening strategy - doesn't really matter what it is, but we'll say someone calls to invade the enemy red knowing that the enemy jungler likely starts blue.  Now, invades can be a good strategy and you can do them even safer if you have more intel to inform the strategy you've chosen.  For instance, an early ward, spotting x person, etc.  Anyway, you decide to do an invade based on some sort of strategic element (hopefully).  Now, if the invade was successful, it was a decent call.  If you picked off someone during the invade or managed to get a total of 3 buffs, it was likely a great call.  If the enemy team manages to ambush you and 1 or more of you die without getting a kill, it was likely a bad call.

Based on that example, all the data you have informs the strategy, but the result dictates whether or not the strategy was a good call. 

Harkening back to game 2 of our in house - I had 2 strategies in mind.  The 1st strategy was informed by hunny's poor performance in previous games along with inexperience running solo top vs 2.  Add that to the fact that jayce normally can hold a tower a bit better against 2 then shen (imo - I know many would disagree) - and that we had our "super star" player covering solo bot... well, that's even additional reasoning why I'd want a lane swap.  My overarching strategy was get the 3 outter towers as quickly as possible.  For me, that meant showcasing my incredible mechanical skills and bypassing some cs in favor of getting damage on towers as quickly as possible. 

So, strategy #1 (lane swap to dominate shen) was an informed strategy based on all the info I had available to me.  I'd certainly have had some second thoughts if I thought bot lane would cave so quickly, but I'm guessing that jayce just didn't know how to properly handle a 2v1.  For instance, if I know I'm going into a 2v1, I'll start with a more sustain oriented build (no idea what jayce started with, btw) and I'll likely try to get some cs very quickly in case the enemy team decides to push in for a tower.  Anyway, strategy 1 could have failed and then clearly been a bad call.  The call paid off and met an early goal of strategy #2.  Now, were there any guarantees that strategy #2 was going to happen?  Nope.  But I stuck with the strategy and had success based on other variables.  It's not like it was some genius call.  We actually failed at so many points during that game and were not able to capitalize off having the outer towers down so early.  The only thing having the towers down early actually did for us was that it enabled us to continue to push those lanes further which would eventually result in having multiple lanes pushing at the same time... which we failed to translate into any dragons, etc. 

Also, going back to my initial premise:  "all the data you have informs the strategy, but the result dictates whether or not the strategy was a good call. "   Strategy #1 resulted in first blood and a tower.  The price was a tower and a dragon.  That trade actually goes in favor of the enemy team.  I honestly had expected jayce to be able to hold a bit better than that (granted he was likely boned in any case when the jungler came down to make a 3v1).  Anyway, getting the additional towers quickly was a huge win for us.  Failing to capitalize after that was a big loss. 

Knowing what I know now, would I make the same call?  Well, if you are telling me I can get 3 outer towers at 12 minutes, I'd say yes. For certain.  If not - if the enemy stopped us from getting those towers, then no.  Bad call.  Bot tower is more valuable than top tower imo.  A

nywho - hopefully that is clear.  I go for top assuming we can crush hunny and get the tower.  I put our all star bot in the hopes that he can hold bot tower long enough for us to get top tower and rotate to bot.  That makes perfect sense to me and sounded legit.  Executed the 1st part of the strat and failed at the 2nd. 

on Aug 06, 2013

You failed to take into account that Hedgie actually knows what he is doing pacov
After he saw the lane swap he did he buffs then immediately went bot lane to push it down. They got our tower at the same time if not sooner than we got their tower AND got dragon because of it since there were 4 people in the area for them and only 2 for us (since our jungler was top with you). Us getting the other 2 outer towers had nothing to do with the lane swap either and on the contrary put all of us behind in farm because of the rotations having so many people in each lane. 

I also want to address a point Hedgie brought up earlier about Aatrox being like another solo laner for us. I agree, but him having all that farm put me in particular waaay behind in farm. I barely had enough damage to burst Corki with an ignite on him (and that is if Shen didn't have ult up). I probably could have spent my gold better (void or DFG instead of the abyssal - no idea why I though it was a good idea vs. Hedgie's team with low magic dmg). 

I just think all in all both teams learned a lot from that game and made quite a few mistakes. Just my opinion. 

 

Edit: I also think the teams should have swapped sides after the first game. The way it was set up we got first pick both times, but they got last pick.

on Aug 06, 2013

OMG_Shiro
Edit: I also think the teams should have swapped sides after the first game. The way it was set up we got first pick both times, but they got last pick.

I agree with that.  I didn't think of it at the time and no one brought it up.  Completely agree we should do map side swaps if we are running the same team more than once.

OMG_Shiro
Us getting the other 2 outer towers had nothing to do with the lane swap either

That doesn't really make sense to me.  What exactly is the scenario you can imagine where we do normal laning and get 3 towers at 12 minutes?  adc/support would have to ace bot lane to pull it off that early. I don't really think it was possible without a lane swap to accomplish that so quickly. 

OMG_Shiro
I just think all in all both teams learned a lot from that game and made quite a few mistakes. Just my opinion.

I'm sure.  It was a long arse game.  Honestly, I learned that if I'm doing any sort of shot calling, I need to have more plans.  I literally had those 2 strategic thoughts/plans... after that, poo town.  And our comp was somewhat unique.  Great disengage but not super great for fighting.  Was fun though.  Kind of hate that we seem to have the personnel for in house games really late in the evening now.  I'd love to play, but its a bad idea if we are just starting an in house at midnight and I have to work the next morning.  I love em though.

on Aug 06, 2013

botlane wasn't a 2v1 - it was a 3v1, don't harp on the Jayce not holding as well as you wanted him to. i didn't kill a single non-buff camp.

Repeating "3 towers at 12 minutes" without admitting we got 2 towers + 2 dragons at 14 is insulting. You are picking an arbitrary point of time to make a claim that you outmaneuvered us with your superior foresight without giving us any credibility.

Finally, giving us your buddies who are currently on tilt/easily banned (like PeterDumpTrunk back in the day and Hunny on Jax a few days ago) with the intention of exploiting them isn't "strategy" - it's just sabatoge. While obviously Hunny did fine both those games, you're sending us a message that we can't really come to the bargaining table without you trying to swindle us. This is, of course, your perogative but it makes me unwilling to play these games.

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