I'm curious - why do you think that?

- TF is a high skill cap champion but it's not completely about mechanics.  You tend to want to try new things all the time so Twisted Fate is someone you could come back to easier than let's say Azir, but would still be fun and rewarding to play.  Wouldn't be like "I haven't played Mid in forever... guess I have to play Annie if I don't want to get beat up."  Not that Ult Gold Carding is easy to do, but it's easier to pull off when you're rusty than The Shurima Shuffle.

- You gravitate to Support because you want to have something important to do for your team and more control of the games outcome besides just winning your lane.  Unfortunately this role tends to have drawbacks that you don't accept, and that leads to you doing things like splitting and using GP/10 Runes to try and get rich playing champions that don't scale well with gold.  You try to have the best of both worlds sometimes and don't always embrace the true spirit of being your team's "Support" unless you're playing with much better players than yourself.

Let me introduce you to TF: The Amazing Teleganking Support Carry!  When you get good enough with him, you can win every lane including your own. You have unmatched map presence and vision control with your Ult so he's a fantastic split pusher.  Even if you don't win early, he still scales pretty damn well. Kinda a U shaped power curve.

-Lotsa skins.  You like to have skin options.

Didn't read your response, thunder - will do so though - thx for your thoughts!!!

Fellas - I want to toss this out there.  Actually, I'll be really specific really briefly and leave it up to you to put crap together (dr sleepy pacov).  

Sometimes I see cow around - I don't shoot him an invite.  Sometimes I see karl.  I don't send him an invite.  Here's why.  I group cow/karl in my head together.  I do invite karl here and there and he doesn't accept, so I don't invite him often. I assume u kids are hearthstone or don't want to play. You want more invite, speak up by speaking up or accepting more frequently. Tossing this in - boaz reads here from time to time - PDT nope.

2 - I'm going thru an evolution atm in pretty much all roles.  I'm looking to be better (eg buhbye plat).  That means OMG AWFUL pacov for bit.  For instance, tonight karl got to experience my shit TF.  Its ok - my tf is shit.  I'm trying to learn.  Worth noting that I'm not fing around  and really trying my best, though.  Now, I know karls brain a bit. He joined me and boaz for game tonight in the hopes mr cow would join.  Cow was afk, karl chose to be a good dood and play a game.  Then karl dipped immediately after that game due to the whoopin. Its cool.  I really think PLAY with me if its fun and don't if its not. I don't really like playing super handicapped games either. 

Anyway, last thoughts then sleep - any of you that play with me, you can expect my best currently, but my best might be poop. I also might be playing with mr Boaz and pete.  So, potential handicap on top of pacov evo handicap.  Cow, for instance, saw a boaz/pacov lobby and dipped tonight.  That's ok - but I would say this -give it a go here and there ( i guess once a week anyway  at least for a game). Honestly, I don't really get mad if people want to dip after a game with me.  Its just a little of a bummer if folks cant handle a single game if I'm with a fella.  

hahah

I skimmed tonight - saw that and I lol'd.  Night bro!

Do you have any match ups in mind? The boots start on TF is generally good against skill shot based champions.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/preseason-2016-crests-horizon

So, no green wards and mana pots in preseason.

Regarding TF matchup, no - nothing in mind.  Just wondered if there was a general philosophy of when to get and hedgie might have that covered with the mostly melee matchups - I figure the if you need to dodge ss's is good also - like ya said

Man, Riot has time to make a lot of big changes when they don't have to rework Jungle in the preseason like they normally do.

Less vision sounds good for me.  Stupid laning pansies and their wards.

thx for the thoughts thunder!  Just got to read.

It wasn't really the mid TF.  It was more of the fact that you talked Boaz into playing a champion that he had never played before.  And he literally didn't know what all the keys did on that champion.  I don't mind people trying out new things, but I'd generally like everybody to know what all the buttons do, otherwise things get kind of frustrating.

high level champ specific marksman changes are out:

Caitlyn

• The zone control marksmen (traps are on a charge system now)
• New play feel with headshot combos (trap and E trigger a guaranteed headshot on the target)

Miss Fortune

• The wombo combo marksmen (ult scaling way better, can crit)
• New play feel with impure shots replaced with "love tap" new passive that gives bonus damage when swapping targets (this works well with Q)

Kog'Maw

• The true glass cannon hyper carry (tons of dmg needs protection)
• W now doubles ALL attack speed and allows him to break the attack speed cap (but ad is lowered to 60%)

Corki

• Magic damage marksmen -> passive now does big magic damage instead of true and all spells now do magic damage
• New mechanic: Special Delivery -> every ~5m in the game corki gets a special set of bombs in his base that allow him to cast a super mega W with much bigger range and impact

Quinn

• The map mobility/roaming marksmen
• R reworked as a utility focused spell -> 0 cooldown and gives quinn crazy out of combat speed to quickly move around the map, not used for assassination anymore

Graves

• We finally made his shotgun a shotgun -> up close burst damage marksmen
• Basic attacks fire multiple buckshots in a cone -> more damage up close
• Q reworked to synergize better with the new basic attacks

And this on the new jung camp:

Hey guys, Rift Herald is coming out and I wanted to fill in some of the details of what's going on here.

Location/timing:

• Spawns at the Baron Pit
• First appears at 4:00
• Respawns every 5 minutes
• Despawns at 19:45 unless in combat; hard despawns at 19:55 no matter what

Encounter details:

• Melee-only attacker - but hits pretty hard. Need to be able to take a punch to tank RH.

• The Eye will occasionally open, exposing RH to bonus damage on attacks from behind equal to 12% of RH's Max HP as True Damage.

• Takes 35% less damage from ranged Autoattacks.

Reward details:

• 50 global gold to everyone on the killing team

• Drops "Doom's Eve" buff to the killer:

• 10% increase to all Damage (except True Damage) and 40 bonus MS

• Enhanced Baron Recall

• Enhances nearby minions offensive power, same as Baron buff, with an additional attack speed increase. Does NOT increase their defensive power (don't worry, you won't have to deal with last-hitting Baron buffed minions in lane)

We'll be dropping a Dev Blog explaining some more of the intent behind putting RH in the game, but any and all types of feedback are fair game here. Thanks everyone!

and more quinn inffo

Changes:

• Tag Team (R) has been heavily repurposed into a strategic map mobility tool:
  • Tag Team's visuals have been changed from Quinn leaving the game space to Valor flying Quinn around beneath her.
  • Tag Team now has a 2-second channel at its start, and no longer has combat spells or basic attacks.
  • Tag Team now has no cooldown, and its Movement Speed bonus is now very dramatic.
  • Skystrike has been retained, but deals less damage and does not deal increased damage based on targets' missing Health.
• Blinding Assault (Q) has been repurposed (and renamed) into more of a waveclearing tool and less of a dueling tool:
  • Q's name has been changed to Aerial Assault, because... the spell no longer blinds.
  • Aerial Assault now marks its primary target as Vulnerable (passive mark).
  • Aerial Assault now does up to double damage based on targets' missing Health.
  • Half of Aerial Assault's cooldown is refunded if it kills at least one enemy.
• Various other changes:
  • Harrier (P) attacks now deal a percentage of Quinn's total AD rather than a base and bonus AD ratio.
  • Vault (E) has had its dash speed increased, and it should now more reliably return you along the vector you dashed in on.

And kog maw

Changes:

• Bio-Arcane Barrage (W) has been changed to make Kog'Maw some kind of vomit-spewing machine gun while it is active.
  • While W is active, Kog'Maw attacks twice as fast, and his Attack Speed cap is doubled to 5 attacks per second.
  • While W is active, basic attacks deal reduced physical damage, but apply on-hit effects at full effect.
  • During this time, Kog'Maw attacks so fast that attack-moving efficiently becomes incredibly difficult, so choose a time when you don't need to move much, and go to town.
• Living Artillery (R) has been repurposed to be less powerful in the average poke case, but very threatening as an execution tool.
  • Living Artillery's base damage and ratios have been adjusted, and it no longer deals increased base damage to champions.
  • Living Artillery now deals double damage to enemies at 25%-50% current Health, and triple damage to enemies below 25% Health
• Various other changes/thoughts:
  • Base Attack Speed stats and Q's passive Attack Speed have been adjusted so he is more dependent upon maxing both his Q and W to really approach his full damage potential.
  • For those wondering, AP Kog'Maw will play a bit differently than before, but we believe it to be of about equal power to before.

So, with kog maw, they are uncapping the AS limit.

With a new utility mastery, they are increasing the CDR cap to 45%.  And they SEEM to be making it more likely for AP champs (burst mage/assassin) to go super deep utility.

Oh - and I straight SUCK with TF.  Keeping practicing, though.  Actually went to bed early last night as I was sick of gettin whooped.  

I have been dipping out on a lot of Boaz games because I have been in a competitive mood. Playing fun games isn't as appealing most of the time unless it's the whatever ARAM game. I'll definitely join you guys for a few games here and there though. I have also been solo queuing and playing 3s with my IRL buddies trying to reach them things.

I like Boaz, but he reminds me of some of the MadCasters who would 'play for fun' back in the day.  You'd get things like Trinity Force Amumu Top.  And that would be fine.  But then later they would get bitter and nasty about how they didn't get enough ganks and how the team should have... and then I'd get really annoyed and wonder where the "oh I just play for fun" attitude went?

Boaz chooses to play Sej everywhere and other non-viable stuff and get's really frustrated. Folks like that seem to be happier playing games in the MMR that they're used to being at without guys like us making the All Sejuani All The Time Meta not work for them.  So I tend to skip inviting or joining games with them for their own happiness.