I would really like a mastery skin once you reach a certain number of points like they do in Heros of the Storm. I think how they distribute points is silly as well. If you win you get a lot, if you lose you don't regardless of how well you preform as an individual in that game. Might mean more if it was based more on your performance than just how much time you grinded into playing X champion. 

I think if you have a <48% win rate with a champ you should get a poop mastery icon that you can show in game or it shows up whenever you die.  

I think we all agree its really just a grinding system in its current iteration and is really in no way a reflection of skill.  I also agree the way points are handed out is a little silly ("If you win you get a lot, if you lose you don't regardless of how well you preform as an individual in that game" - cow).  

But - currently we get those lovely in game mastery things and god help me anyway, but it is nice to toss that shite up from time to time.  

I do like that in the load screen we get to see our teammates mastery level.  That makes one feel a little better when you see a niche or FOTM pick.  So, that's one thing it has going for it (even if its total games played, you know this isn't some pooper trying a champ out).  That's actually probably the best feature of things as they stand.

On Riots side, it accomplishes a goal and that's why I don't think we'll ever see it removed even if its dumb as a box of rocks - it gives folks another reason to keep playing games, which leads to skin sales on individual champs, etc. 

For me, it recently led me to spam a lot of zyra games and she will likely be my newest go to in ranked as a result.  As spammed games with a champ make a difference in win rate and actual champ mastery, its good for that anyway.

Hoping they develop it more.  I don't think we'll see mastery skins (think of the background work to do that for every champ).  I'm guessing we could get a mastery icon though, but even then not sure if its something rito would pursue.   Really curious what they actually might do next

so as the new champ select gets ready to roll out to ranked, I want to settle into some picks for 2 lanes.  Currently eyeing support (all set) and top (not so set).  

I've been crunching some numbers coinciding with my existing comfort levels with champs and I'm starting to lean towards wukong top as one of my alternates due to late game win potential (eg 1 good engage at a certain point = buhbye).  Anyway, are there any top lane matchups you can think of where I'd absolutely not want to pick wu into if I have that option?

And after watching quite a few high elo people play wu top and then trying it a few times, it appears as if I understand wukong jungle well and not so much top wukong.  I'm continually mismanaging mana - most because I'm including my w in the combos to avoid retaliation.  Which isn't so smart, so I'm losing the blue bar war.  Which means i can't do much when my jungler shows.... expecting me to do things... when i dont have the mana to.  Lots to work on... makes me miss renekton where its much more simplified.  

Finally done playing karma... that was a bit of a chore.  Trying really hard to figure out a good 2nd comfort role.  Hoping that doesn't go back to adc.  My quinn top is pretty serviceable though with a really nice mid game spike.  I really like solo lane as there are less variables - not currently feeling any particular jungler atm either.  I can probably get some pretty good elo out of top lane quinn as my secondary and support as my main. Really looking forward to the new champ select project.

Oh - and I think I'm done with my PDT voice pack stuff.  Was fun for a bit anyway and hopefully some of you got a kick out of it.  Nothing I want to use regularly though and I'm already onto something else.  Folks can let me know if they want more info on how to make a pack somewhere down the road.  

I figured if you were wanting to play a top lane you would try trundle. He is really good at split pushing and can even play from behind fairly easily, just seemed like a champ you would like.

Yeah, I should fall back to that - I've played him a bunch top already and even more as support.  Downside is that trundle banned/picked a bit - to be fair its not that common.  That might be the answer though.  Thanks!

I'm mostly just trying to come up with some picks where I can carry or at least develop some addition depth in exactly 2 lanes.  

Become a Zyra OTP?  She has a very high win rate in mid lane as well as Support.  You could stay practiced with her mechanics when playing both roles.

She's got glaring weaknesses as an AP Mid but they're much the same as when playing her Support, but without the team-comp issues you cause for your team when you take her bot lane.

If you want to be able to 'carry' games, she's an excellent choice.

huh - what team comp issues are you referring to on a support with excellent cc and one of the best support ults in the game?  Curious if you have any thoughts re: why you feel this way... or if its just feels.  You still build support items as needed and if doing well, you build an additional support item via rylai.  The only weakness I'm seeing is skill shot based e, but its more reliable than morg for peeling and initiate.  

re: OTP - maybe - she's one of the few champs I really like and isn't really bound for the nerf wagon (outside of the thunderlords tree change making pen weaker).  I definitely feel like she's a weaker mid laner in most match ups and is a better fit support.  

Oh - and if you'd care to learn how to work with her better, I can provide you with some feedback.  And that's not to say I'm a zyra expert and you are a pooper or anything - or that zyra/kali is the most ideal combo, but I really don't think its subpar.

When you played kalista you weren't really utilizing your ult in a way that had much synergy with zyra.  We had a few instances where I was setup to land an ultimate while tanking damage.  I cast my ultimate which provides me with a window of protection and a short window of time to re-position, cast ignite or spells, etc.  The typical response for both the adc and support when they see my ult cast is to try to reposition briefly and focus completely on that.  And if its a good ult, they can't really do that.  So that opens up a window.  When you ult at the same time as my ult, that loses the advantage gained and more or less offsets my ult and the potential damage.

A better combo would be to let me soak any damage if I 'appear' caught and you know my ultimate is up and try to reserve your ult until is absolutely necessary.  That enables me to tank the most, while dealing damage and frees you up to focus on the enemy while they are dpsing me.  It's a balancing act and when done properly, zyra/kali can work quite well.  When done poorly, its a waste of 2 ults. 

You also don't generally opt for an aggressive use of your ult (ult me, let me toss in, lead with my ult after using the cc for yours, toss down plants and spam spells - I probably do 80-90% damage that way to 1 target with like 20 AP at level 6).  That's fine and all a matter of your personal preference as to whether or not you want to go heavy.

Anyway, I saw you jump to ezreal which I recollect being your safety I'm stuck playing adc with GDM.  That's also fine and up to you, but I think you are missing out if you are being dismissive.   I don't mind skipping on dark seal (to be fair, if I get dark seal, I upgrade it to meija about once in 25 games) - but that is 400 gold I could put elsewhere (though it gives 100 mana and 15 AP for 400 gold). 

All said and done, if you've decided that you can't lane with a zyra or that this is somehow GDM, we can just not play bot together or skip games together.  All ok with me anyway.  I like being gimped into roles and champs I don't want to play about as much as anyone and I'd generally just prefer to play solo if it means I can work on what I want to. Not always, but generally.

I think thunder was referring to zyra being a bad pick it your team needs a tank. So if you're sitting last pick and your team consists of fiddle sticks jungle, jayce top, and you grab zyra it would be a mistake. Braum, leona, alister, tahm would of been much more appropriate.

I don't think that was the case last night though.  Good point, though.

The chatter among high elo players is that she's underrated in Mid and her win rate would seem to back that up.  Of course all that might change because she's very vulnerable to changes in the meta.   If her lane counters become popular or the dark days of League Of Assassins come back, I wouldn't recommend her mid.  Fizz and Rengar are not what you ever want to see on the other team.

Yeah, pretty much what Cow said regarding her teamcomp issues.  She'll still provide good CC even after her fire and forget Spooky Ghosts get nerfed, but... sometimes you just need a tank as your team's Support and more for an initiator than anything else.  Her ult and E are more for counter initiation and peel I feel.

Good tips on my Ult, thanks.  I was pissing Cow off the other night doing the same thing that I did with you last night.  Think my Kalista is just really rusty from me trying to find my 'secondary' ADC for Ranked this season.

Ez isn't just my "PeterDumpTruck is my Support?!" pick.  He's a champ I've always liked and always wanted to be good at, and is a good pick in a variety of situations.  And he's a great poke champ so I thought he'd be really good with Zyra.  Figured our level 2 would be pretty brutal.

Unfortunately I didn't take into account that you don't play Support Zyra like I or a majority of Zyra players do:  Starting Q and maxing Q first for superior harass in lane.  You start E and prioritize it, which a few high level players and pros prefer to do... but I think that's a more successful style for securing kills during ganks/teleganks.  

I was planning on winning a poke war so in hindsight, I would have picked Corki or Lucian for stronger all in.

Was trying to give you advice on playing Zyra for your Ranked climb this season, not critiquing her as your choice of Support last night.  I've played her as Support quite a bit over the years and will continue to.  She's fun and effective and sometimes actually solves teamcomp issues when you need more AP.  But she's not a tank and sometimes that's what your team needs you to be when playing Support.

Ah righto.  I kind of suck with her as a mid (most of my solo lanes are smeh).  Think you might be onto something with trying to 1 trick pony her a bit. I'll put in some reps on her mid sometime soon though.  I'm about a million times more comfortable as a support.  

You've put in a ton of work on kali and its most often fun to play with you in lane.  

re: maxing E v Q as a support, hmm... most of the higher elo folks I was watching (I watched a bunch of stuff before I went on my zyra kick a few weeks back) I believe it was a E max.  Maxing Q made perfect sense to me in mid lane.  

BUT - I just looked it up and the main reason I was maxing E - I thought it had reduced cooldowns per level... which it does not.  I'm going to adapt a bit and maybe level q/e at the same time to keep the dps consistent.