Pacov's place to enjoy the show.

Update 5/25/2017

  • This thread is all done.  I've lost interest in jibba jibbing here, but its been fun.  Thanks for all the memories.  
  • I am streaming from time to time on twitch - generally just when I'm trying hard in ranked though.  If interested, you can check that out here:  https://www.twitch.tv/pacovdumptruck
 

Well, I started a thread back in Dec 2011 that’s seen a lot of activity (some 922,000 views over the course of a few years apparently...).  That thread had a good deal of tips/strategies/discussions about League of Legends from new and old players alike.  You can find the previous thread (now archived) here:  https://forums.joeuser.com/413863.  I think its time to start fresh with a new thread.

What’s this thread all about?
For those that followed the previous thread, the type of content you see here will be fairly consistent to what you are used to.  Please consider this a place to discuss LoL related content as you like.  I'll do the same and treat the thread as a blog as well where I talk about what’s going on with me in LoL.  Feel free to jump in and join the discussion if you like.

Quick background on me
I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust. Back in August 2011, I started getting heavily involved in League of Legends, and folks from the community were kind enough to help me figure things out.  I play LoL most nights, stream, make videos and it’s my main gaming interest.

Some links 


Comments (Page 58)
203 PagesFirst 56 57 58 59 60  Last
on Nov 21, 2014

I will be in Hawaii from the end of december until the 9th or 10th can't remember. Peter is going to show up part way through my trip. We are staying at Soccermom's house on the beach. Peter will be making us a pizza since he is a pizza chef if you didn't know.

on Nov 21, 2014

Also in a ranked game last night my team scored the 5 dragon buff a few times. The buff is pretty substancial, I would say more powerful than baron buff even. The true damage is very noticable when fighting. Triple burn brand was pretty amusing.

on Nov 21, 2014

if you die while you have the buff you go back to 4 dragon stacks and can regain the complete buff by killing it again. Sorry for the triple post, for whatever reason when I am at work I cannot edit my posts.

on Nov 21, 2014

pizza chef pete.  ah - so many fascinating things. 

Didn't know bout drag buff falling off at the last level.  That's good. 

on Nov 21, 2014

Yes, 5th dragon buff works kind of like baron buffs where it lasts a somewhat reasonable amount of time then goes away on its own.  It also goes away if you die.  You can always get it back again by killing another dragon.

on Nov 21, 2014

I'm theory crafting a bit as I have the afternoon off.  Top laners w/ smite is what I'm currently thinking about.  Obv downside being not having TP.  Skip that and think some more... trying out a few things... then I came across this vid from foxdrop w/ ww top lane

 

on Nov 21, 2014

OMG_ZEX
I will be meeting him in a month when I go to Hawaii to say hi to Soccermom/Thundercles (yes peter also bought a ticket thunder haha)

Oh.  My.  God.

Are you telling me I'm going to get a chance to meet Peter in person?  Or is he just going to be there for your Oahu leg of the trip?

on Nov 22, 2014

Thunder's montage is literally him kicking someone on the enemy team into me and killing me. 

 

on Nov 23, 2014

Going to split this post up into multiple parts because it is going to be really long...

Anyway, this is sort of theorycrafting runes/masteries/items, etc for the new Season. Note that i'm not going to really factor in "cheesy" stuff that is most probably going to be nerfed very quickly (eg, Smite top lane, or 5x MP5 Chalice). If you're playing ranked, it's worth it to think about that kind of stuff and figure it out. If you're not... it's sort of a waste of mental space.

And even though runes and masteries were left unchanged, i think the early-game tempo changes really mixed things up:

1. It's really hard for junglers to gank at 3:00 (Nightblue's spreadsheet cites 3:15 as the earliest double-buff w/ 75% hp gank time). Even with a heroic leash, you usually have to base after both your buffs - unless you are Nunu/Warwick... who aren't the best gankers. This means you can delay some of your "survive the jungle" tactics to the 3:45-4:00 mark, a whole 'nother level! It's possible that the meta might change around so that junglers stop taking their "gank" ability at level 3, and instead taking at level 4. Giving you another minute or so before getting ganked.

2. The level 1/2/3 changes make abilities a lot weaker for those levels. For "stat-level" here i mean the amount of HP, mana, base AD, Armor and the 1.25 MR/lvl melee you gain each level. You have ~70% more stat-level level 1, ~45% more stat-level level 2, ~10% more stat-level level 3, ~1% LESS stat-level level 4, and then lagging behind more and more until level 9/10, where you are a full 53.5% of a level behind (you gain 100% of your stat-level points at level 10 so you are still 53.5% behind). You start catching up and break even around level 17, and get slightly more at level 18. Note that ranged champions in particular LOST 2 AD for the entire game.

Even you're ~5% weaker without items at level 9 (the absolute highest point in terms of stat-level difference), you are actually at your relative weakest at level 7, with a full 7% weaker without items! Since that is even earlier in the game, items can't really make-up for the difference. Honorable mention goes to level 6, where you are 5.25% weaker - and quite possibly not have shopped yet so you only have a Dorans. If you hit level 6 and your opponent hasn't, you should pretty much go crazy ham with your ult. Remember your ABILITIES aren't 5.25% weaker - your hp/armor/mr is. The "dip" means that abilities (with large base damages as well as ignite) actually get STRONGER levels 5-16 or so. Abilites that are mostly ratios are more-or-less unaffected because there were no real changes to AD/AP  items. There's also a strange interaction with % HP abilities. They are stronger levels 1-3, but then weaker from 4-17.

The 5% base stat reduction makes those 10-15 minute dragons really difficult, since everyone's base stats are weaker, plus the dragon is doing more (+ AoE) damage. It also means that midgame ability-focused champs really spike (Trinity ADs might be top-tier, and champs who dip in the mid-game like Tristana might have a harder time). i think that these changes also really help Assassins a lot. They generally tend to struggle levels 1-3. The -2 AD reduction helps keep them safer against ranged harrass, they have massively impactful ults, ignite is stronger... Fizz even got a Mana/MP5 buff.

Continuing with the the -2 AD/lvl change, that will somewhat slow down ranged aggression botlane, since that is a ~3% damage reduction at that stage of the game, in addition to the much larger health/armor pools. The level 4-9 "dip" is also one of the reasons why the jungle can be so hard around that range: not only do you have lower stats, it's also way stronger.

3. New Machete makes AS a lot weaker than it has been. It's a DoT over two seconds, so you don't gain much by re-applying it over and over. Traditionally, AS marks have been the best way to increase your clear speeds, at the cost of early-game ganks (AD) or scaling (ArP, MPen).

To a certain extent, Perseverance is slightly better on junglers now, since you'll typically be at lower health values (espiecially early game; it's basically like an extra health pot every shop).

on Nov 23, 2014

So with all this in mind, let's talk about what i'm doing with my runes/masteries for LANERS:

== Reds ==  

For ADCs, i still think that you're going to want to go flat AD reds. Most Trinity-ADs tend to have a lot of mixed damage, so they don't gain as much from Armor Pen, and the extra AD is always going to be important for last-hitting and pushing towers in midgame.

However, i think that flat ArPen reds are going to be much better for toplane - mid AD Assassins will probably want to keep their AD since they tend to struggle with last-hitting early game without starting with a bunch of flat AD to clear with spells. Excluding top-lane smite shenanigans, top laners still frequently take TP. Combined with the level 1-3 changes, there's just not a huge amount of kill potential there. However, when you hit level 6... then you'll really want that Armor Pen (or Hybrid Pen if you're a Jax/Renekton/whatever. You only need ~30% of your damage early game to be magic to break even with ArP, and only 10% of your damage end game).

For mages mid-lane, Hybrid Pen will be slightly weaker due to the AD nerf. It might still be worth it if you're planning on being aggressive with autoattacks (building a Sheen or playing Ziggs, Fizz, etc), but one of the big reasons to have at least 3 HyPen marks before was to help with last hitting. But since minions no longer have armor, that doesn't really help. If you're playing someone like Vel'koz or Karthus mid, who have short auto-attack ranges and tend to be focused purely on spells, pure MPen is probably better.

Supports have a few options. i know that towards the end of the last season, AD marks became pretty standard on supports, due to how important fast-pushing to level 2 was. However, they are going to be really affected by the "4-17" dip, since they are going to be trapped there for a very long time, so they are just going to be even more squishy (assassins go "nomnomnom"). For more aggressive supports, Hybrid Pen might be better just because that will give you better scaling (espiecially on Sona). Armor reds are always a reasonably good defensive option and might keep you alive against Trinity Force carries (they are only 10% weaker than yellows). i'll probably end up going a mix of AD and Armor since i tend to play pretty aggressively with autoattacks on sustain supports.

== Yellows ===

You basically get a "free" set of flat runes at levels 1-3. By the time you get to level 4, per-level runes are nearly as good as flat. Unless you're going against an extremely aggressive level 2 lane (Leona + Graves/Lucian), or going against someone who might have ignite, there isn't a huge incentive to take a lot of level 1 flat defensive runes. Plus, i think junglers are going to need stronger leashes, which will reduce the level 2 fast-push => all-in strat (... i hope). Mid lane might start going back to leashing, at least for passive matchups.

So, i think that flat hp seals are a LOT weaker than they used to be. With the rune rework a few months ago, Ignite was pretty popular still in top lane / support. And flat health was really good at stopping that + the omnipresent level 2 all-ins. But you don't really need it anymore, imo. The only time i'd take flat health seals is with a mix of flat Armor seals against aggressive lanes (6 Armor, 3 HP). Scaling HP is still pretty good, and it's one of the best ways to deal with the overall stronger Abilities you will be seeing in teamfights.

So yeah, i think Scaling HP will sort of be the "default" (espiecially in midlane), with the alternative being 6 Flat Armor + 3 HP for botlane and against aggressive laners. Armor/lvl is pretty good if you think the first 4 levels will be passive and you're going against an AD opponent (or if you're using DShield/Crystalline Flask). A mix of flat/scaling Armor could be an interesting alternative for botlane depending on what supports become standard.

=== Blues ===

i think that blues are mostly unchanged for everyone except midlane.

Toplane:  CDR blues if it is AD v AD, MR blues against AP opponents, MR/lvl if you're the team tank or against hybrids.

ADCS: standard mix of MR + MP5. Maybe MR => MR/lvl if botlane becomes really passive and double AP comps become standard.

Support: standard personal choices of CDR, MR, Armor, MP5, AP/lvl. Support blues have been shitty forever...

Mid: If you're going Athenes, AP/lvl is probably still your best (unless against an Assassin). Flat MR will be a bit weaker due to the 1-3 changes. With the new mid-game spike of abilities, using pure scaling MR might be fine, and perhaps optimal. There's a strong possibility Morello + Tear will become the new standard build midlane (once they fix the Chalice 5x MP5 bug), and scaling MR works really good for that. If both laners rush tear, kill potential is going to be pretty low first 9 levels. MP5 yellows are an interesting option and might turn out great on certain champs (espiecially on Velkoz combined with MPen reds).

=== Quints ===

Like blues, i think that they are mostly unchanged.

Toplaners will still probably go AD. AP tops will still probably go MS (or occasionally AP for like Lulu).

Midlaners will still all go AP/AD, with the occasional MS for skill-shot based matchups. 2 Armor Quints + 9 AP blues is really good against AD.

ADCs will probably still all go AS. You might see +1 AD quint to help with the ~2 AD nerf. Lifesteal might be slightly better now though (minions have higher hp now, can lifesteal slightly more, lifesteal is always better midgame than AS except for killing towers/dragons/barons). Maybe 2x AS + 1x LS/AD.

Supports will probably keep 2x Armor with 1 HP/MS/AP.

=== Masteries ===

Masteries in general are probably unchanged for laners. Double-Edged Sword might be a little bit better for non-ADCs due to the whole 4-17 ability spike (though i still think Feast is better).

The one change i will be making for mages will be Runic Affinity => Culinary Master. Since i'll be taking more "greedy" per-level runes, combined with the blue-buff duration nerf, having a buscuit will help in case i screw up early game, as well as helping deal with poke a bit better in mid-game. It does weaken me end-game since you lose 24 seconds of blue buff...

on Nov 23, 2014

Alright, now for the jungle. My position is sort of odd. On one hand, i have hated playing jungle ever since Season 3. But, i actually really enjoy starting a custom game and plutzing around with weird rune setups. i also really like reading about jungle theorycrafting stuff. So what i might say could be totally incorrect - in practice. But i do think my theory isn't completely off-base.

For the past 4 years, AS marks have always been the best way to increase clear speeds. This is different now, however, since Machete does a DoT instead of a true on-hit effect. AS marks might still be the best clear speed marks, but they might only be ~1-3 seconds faster... and AD/ArmorPen/MPen are just so much better in teamfights.

Theses are the champs that i am testing with, since i can't test literally everyone. But i think they fit into good categories, even if not every single curve is the same.

- Rengar, Kha'zix (scales very well with pure AD + Armor Pen. In the same category as Wukong, Lee Sin, Panth, etc)
- Skarner, Nocturne (scales very well with pure AS, but also scales well with AD. In the same category as Shyvana and Xin)
- Hecarim, Sejuani (scales mostly into teamfights and generally struggles with initial clears. Same category as Amumu, Naut, etc...)

i tried out perseverance but... really you're better off just putting 2 points into the already-mediocre "Recovery" and getting 2 HP5 for 2 points and using the 3rd point elsewhere. Perseverance only works if you're Jungle Mundo because of Second Wind.

If you are either a Hybrid or a primarily-physical damage-type, you probably should use 6 ArP marks. The lowest armor in the jungle is 8 now (it used to be 3), and Armor Pen scales so well into mid-game, you're really doing yourself a dis-service to take anything else.

That leaves you with 3 slots. As i can see it, you pretty much have 3 options:
1- AS
2- AD
3- Armor (each point of armor is worth ~20 health at level 1 and ~40 health at level 3 - remember armor reds are only 10% worse than yellows and i feel like yellow armors are required).

(you could take 3 more penetration marks, but realize they will only help you against the big monsters so you are sacrificing health/speed for better ganks/midgame)

Armor is going to be weaker if you're going to do any dueling, so you probably should only take that if you are a tank (imagine they took 9 Armor Pen - they'll be 1 armor ahead of you, despite you being the one with the defensive runes).  

For everyone i did the following route:
1. Red + Smite
2. Blue
3. Gromp + Smite

This obviously isn't the most optimized route (Gromp + Smite > Blue > Red + Smite is), but it's what i could do without a leash and it was short + difficult enough that i could test out different setups quickly, because it was totally possible for Gromp to kill you. This route should get you to level 3 pretty fast as well. i also chose to take MS quints for everyone, to make it also slightly more difficult. Purely for sustain you could take Armor quints. For some champs like Kha'zix, AD quints might be better (since he doesn't need MS quints much).

Format is:
<Champion>
(<Mastery Page>) / Marks / Seals / Glyphs / Quints - Game Timer for clear - Amount of health remaining (both hp pots gone)

=== Nocturne ===
AD Setup
(21/9 ) / 6 ArP + 3 AD / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:25, ~70 hp (have to wait a few seconds before starting Gromp or you die).
(14/16) / 6 ArP + 3 AD / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:23, ~70 hp.

AS Setup
(21/9 ) / 6 ArP + 3 AS / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:23, ~130 hp. <= winner. AS quints would probably increase his health another 50 or so.
(14/16) / 6 ArP + 3 AS / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:28, ~100 hp.

=== Kha'zix ===
AD Setup - Kha'zix dies always dies to Gromp if he doesn't get a leash. But AD quints make him die 10 seconds faster so using AD quints here
(21/9 ) / 6 ArP + 3 AD / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 AD, Dies to Gromp at 3:20. So you would either need a good leash or base after blue.

=== Skarner ===
AS Setup
(6/21/3) / 6 ArP + 3 AS / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:30, ~230 hp <= winner though armor makes you actually go FASTER. The reason is because you finish Blue just as your abilities are coming off of cooldown, so you can go straight to Gromp without having to wait for QW to come back up. AS would probably be better if you're getting a proper leash though.

Armor Setup
(6/21/3) / 6 ArP + 3 Arm / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:20, ~150 hp.

=== Sejuani ===
Armor Setup
(14/16) / 9 Arm / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:30, ~140 hp. This one really surprised me. About the same overall performance as a 21/9 Nocturne with offensive marks. Maybe the wall-hop with Q after the first buff really saves a lot of time?

=== Rengar ===
AD Setup
(21/9 ) / 6 ArP + 3 AD / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 AD - 3:20. ~50 hp.
(14/16) / 6 ArP + 3 AD / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 AD - 3:25. ~50 hp.

=== Hecarim ===
Armor Setup
(6/21/3) / 6 ArP + 3 Arm / 9 Arm / 3 CDR/lvl + 6 MR/lvl / 3 MS - 3:35, ~180 hp. This is probably the best first clear Hec has had in 2 seasons.

=== Summary ===

My route killed a lot of my AD-dps champs... Part of it may have been that they were just "too fast" and i wasn't waiting for cooldowns right before Gromp (and healing ~50 hp over 10 seconds). And the AD-dps champs are going to pull way ahead after they get their first jungle item, or if they get a leash so that their minimal sustain "tops them off" rather than "barely keeps them alive".

Armor reds don't seem too bad on tanks. i saw very little impact on clear times, and they seemed to leave you slightly healthier. If you're a tank who doesn't care about AS (everyone but Cho'gath and Skarner?), Armor Reds might work out great as long as you don't get into any duels.

These numbers could obviously be improved by using combat-stat focused quints rather than MS. For many AD champs, i saw a ~10 second improvement of speeds with AD quints. However, note 1 second of those 10 is going to go away every single time you have to base (compared to MS quints). You could also try replacing CDR/lvl with flat CDR, or perhaps even Armor (Armor blues are 30% worse than Yellows).

If heavy leashes become popular, it would be a good idea to start using ~3 scaling armor + 6 flat yellows. They break even at level 6.

It looks like 21/9 is going to be the best mastery page. Even stuff like OPpression and +5 Armor in the defense tree results in slower clear time AND lower health values compared to 21/9.

i didn't experiment with using Bladed Armor. It might help those with very poor clear. But, Bladed Armor has been really "meh" since they changed it from the 6 true-damage flat.

on Nov 23, 2014

You really need to use your first smite for bonuses when testing, not on blue/red.  It's a huge difference to have all that extra damage or stuns as you run through the jungle.  This is true even without a leash when you're testing in a bot game.  Gromp/blue is much faster than blue/gromp and doesn't risk death. You can then do wolves/wraiths and be way ahead of the game before doing red.

 

I'm using vamp quints.  Major change in jungle sustain over something like AS quints.

on Nov 23, 2014

You can't do Gromp > Blue > Red without a leash (you need to the 200 health heal on Red Smite). i said that in my own post.

The purpose of my route was NOT to find the optimal route. It was specifically to find a very DIFFICULT route that i could test very quickly (< 4 minutes).

on Nov 24, 2014

Eh, just to make sure I wasn't going senile, I did gromp/blue/red with kayle(yeah, I said kayle), finished at 3:30 with a 1/12/17 mastery page and scaling resist/armor/damage/lifesteal runes.

 

If I tried that with 21/9 and no vamp quints, I don't think I'd even get to red, but kayle isn't a serious jungler at this point.

203 PagesFirst 56 57 58 59 60  Last