Pacov's place to enjoy the show.

I've locked/archived this thread/blog and have started a new discussion over here:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/454943/

Please join me if you like.

 

 

 


 

 

Am I streaming


 

 

Well, I started a thread  back in August (https://forums.joeuser.com/411269/) that's seen a lot of activity and actually had quite a few good bits of information for new and old players alike.  I figure it's time to start a new thread and perhaps keep the OP up-to-date with useful information, etc.  Feel free to use this post for any LoL discussion, etc.

Super fast background:  I played a lot of Demigod as pacov/cheesuscrust.  Back in August 2011 or so, I started getting heavily involved in LoL and folks have been kind enough to chime in with tips and links to various sites that have been quite useful to me.  In addition, I've been able to keep up with folks that I've played Demigod with in the past and meet some new folks that play LoL and frequent these message boards. 

Here's some of the things I've learned in the previous thread:

 New Player tips

  • Play the tutorial.
  • Consider picking up the starter bundle.  It's 530 RP (that's about $4).  You get 8 champs unlocked, a 4 win IP boost and a 10 win XP boost.  It's a pretty good deal (used it recently on an alt account).  You can find it in the game store under bundles.
  • Riot gives you 400 RP as soon as you hit level 5.  It's enough to buy some skins, a boost, or a cheap character. 
  • Learn to last hit!  Last hitting is simply landing the last hit on creeps.  If you last hit, you get gold for that kill.  The number of creeps you have killed is tracked in a value called CS.  You can see this number in the top right hand corner of the ui or by pressing tab.  Here's a really simple tutorial re: last hitting if you are brand new - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LheiRB76x5g
  • Read some guides on any character you want to try out.  The recommended builds (what you see when you go to a shop) are not optimal.  The guides include item suggestions and skill orders.  These are very useful in learning decent ways to build characters
  • Use the rune combiner to get level 3 runes prior to level 20 if you like.  You will need 375 IP.  Buy any tier 1 rune that costs 15 IP.  You need to purchase 25 of these.  Click on your rune page.  In the bottom right hand corner there is a button called the Rune Combiner.  If you place 5 runes in there, you can get a random rune that is 1 tier higher (eg if you have 5 tier 1 runes, you will get 1 random tier 2 rune.  Anyway, the math works out such that you spend 375 IP ( buy 25 tier 1 15 IP runes) and you get 1 completely random tier 3 rune.  Some of the quintessences are 2k IP, so if you luck out and get one of those, you just won the lottery.  You can always keep the random tier 2 rune if you end up with something good and don't want to trade it out yet.
  • Consider setting aside IP for tier 3 runes (available at level 20 and above).  You can't purchase them with real money - only IP.  Keep that in mind.

Great site I visit every day for LoL related news - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends

pacov's misc info

Here's a guide I made

pacov's Guide to Improving at League of Legends and Moving Up in Elo

k - so I'm just going to put down some of my thoughts.  I'm not amazing at this game, but I do certain things that improve my odds of winning in ranked and so far its panning out just fine (bronze 5 to gold 5 in about a month or so).  We all have varied skill levels, so some of this might be useful and some not.  Caveat complete.

Prerequisite- you need to know how to play every single role.  You don't have to be a god at every single role (more power to you if you are - I'm certainly not).  You need to be able to play at a serviceable level in every single role and excel at least at 1 role (preferably 2).  In my case, I'm good at support and adc.  I'm not great, but have serviceable mids and jungles and so so tops.  Knowing what you are good at and bad at is very important.  If you don't know, I can probably tell you - but you really should know...  Anyway, you need to have enough champs to make solid picks in any role and you need to be able to cover any role if it comes down to it.  I'll talk about how to get better at specific roles in a bit.

Champ select advice - Don't be the "fill" guy unless you really feel like you are awesome in all roles.  Call your preferred role immediately when you hit the lobby.  Say "adc pref."  Do this as soon as you hit the lobby.  Some people believe that if you call a role you magically get it.  This is stupid, but if you call something out, folks will often accomodate your request.  If you are feeling wishy washy for whatever reason, call out multiple roles in order of what you want to play - "adc/mid pref."  In my experience, you generally do not want to call support.  It's a very important role, but you want to be in a position to carry every single game if possible.  If you aren't calling out a role, you are hoping that other players can carry you.  If you are hoping that folks will carry you, you don't deserve to win.  You need to know your best roles and you absolutely should request them.

Solo or duo in ranked? - Well, my 1st thought here is that you should solo.  If you solo, you have to rely on yourself.  IMO - its a much bigger test of skill to play solo and win than to duo.  Do you want someone to carry you or do you really want to know that you are actually good?  That said, provided you have the right duo partner, you can increase your odds of winning quite a bit.  The simple math is that instead of having 4 teammates as unknown quantities, you only have 3.  If you have a good duo teammate, you know what you can expect.  When you duo, you get the most bang for your buck by having complimentary roles.  Support/adc is good; jungle/mid also works.  Even if you don't have direct symmetry in roles, if you are an amazing mid and I'm an amazing adc, our odds go up quite a bit if we both get those roles.  Our odds go way down if we can't get those roles and are forced to play out of positions that we are weaker.  For example, Bryff is a good mid.  If he duo's up with me, the only way he will get to play that role is for me to call mid, take it myself, and then put myself into a position like support where I can't carry out of (I'm always 1st pick, Bryff is always last pick when we duo)... that and I have to show the mid I'm picking at the start which means Bryff gets hard countered.  In short, we can expect that we will be a disadvantage when duo queuing.  Now, if Bryff queued up with someone at a lower elo than himself that was solid, he'd likely be 1st pick and be able to get mid and have a better chance of carrying the game.  Anyway, you need to keep in mind where you end up in pick order when duoing if you aren't looking to go adc/support.  If you want that, you can usually get it. 

How do you get better in roles that you are not good at? - Well, here's what I do.  And this is really what I do on a regular basis.  I think about what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.  For instance, I realized that I don't play any hyper carry ads.  So, I read up on hyper carries like vayne and kog maw.  I look for guides on how to build them (most adcs are the same btw ), I look for vids on how people play them (eg how do I all in with a specific champ - is there a combo - when do I all in - what's the best way for me to burst - how should I behave in lane with this champ).  Then, I fire up a custom game and try out the mechanics of whatever champ vs AI.  Usually I learn a few tricks during that custom on how to position myself, etc.  Then, I'm off to normal games where I'll request the role or character I'm trying out.  Now, people still report your for being awful in normals, but it really is where you need to try out characters to see if you are any good or not as the bots are useless for proving your skill level to yourself.  So, fire up that normal and ask to play a role (again - after you've tried out the champ against bots).  If you don't know anyone you are with and you are quite awful, I suggest muting everyone at the start of the game.  Then, do your best.  Continue with this until you feel like you have a serviceable skill level in whatever role.  And keep in mind what you need to work on.  For me, I noticed I didn't really have alot of mids for ranked, so I started practicing some with gragas against and karth.  That way, I'll be able to get the job done if I need to play mid.  The next thing I need to do is put more time into being better top lane. Again, because while I prefer adc/support, I might need to play top for the team.  So, best to be ready for it.  Put your time in and practice roles. 

One last thought - there are certain things you can generally expect in ranked.  1 - if you are 1st pick, you generally can call whatever you want.  Common knowledge, I'm sure - but I'll add - CALL WHATEVER YOU WANT.  2 - if you duo queue, you generally can lock down both adc and support.  It works best if your adc is 1st pick, ofc.  I've bumped into like 10 random dedicated supports in all of my games of LoL.  People generally aren't going to call support. So, if you are 1st pick and duo'd, just call adc and then your duo partner can almost always get support.

 

Lol King profiles for ranked tracking

I'm not going to update this regularly, so just consider it a snapshot (I'll add a date when I update them).  Anyway, I enjoy seeing folks progress through ranked and keeping tabs on that sort of thing from time to time. 

Snapshot updated 05/28/2014

 Character guides

Mid Ziggs by cow - http://www.lolking.net/guides/7906

Comments (Page 194)
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on Mar 21, 2013

Krazikarl

For some reason I tune out the new "Missing" question mark ping.  I never seem to notice it.  In that game, top pinged that Rengar, but apparently I missed it and then complained that he didn't call it.  I hear the normal and back pings, but my brain just tunes out the missing ping.

You probably just need someone like me to ping question marks over your head. That's generally what I do when someone doesn't pay attention to warning pings.  Seriously, though, its not as pronounced as the danger pings on the mini map - mayhaps they would be well served to tweak the icon.

seriously though - karma is super strong.  I feel like she'd make a very powerful mid and a potentially powerful support.  We'll see how much they tone her down (if at all) before she hits live.

on Mar 21, 2013

Campaigner

I've read that while Call of Duty is a casual FPS compared to Quake and and Red Orchestra, League of Legends is a casual MOBA compared to DOTA 2. Whadda ya say about that?

Or, why do you play a MOBA which isn't the most skillful? 

I've been playing a ton of DotA 2...

and I'm inclined to believe that the skill cap is infinitely higher than LoL's...

however, they are rather different games in terms of actual gameplay, while the concepts remain similar.

I enjoy LoL for its gameplay friendliness and overall ease of usage, while I enjoy DotA 2 for its higher skill cap and gameplay nuances...

it's difficult to compare them.

on Mar 21, 2013

CPPFZKrdaxDrkrun
the skill cap is infinitely higher

Finally a game that has an infinite skill cap.  I'm trying to do the math on this.  Game 1 has a skill cap.  Game 2 has a skill cap that is infinitely greater than game 1.  Skill cap on game 1 in 10.  Skill cap on game 2 is infinitely higher, so 10 + infinitely higher = 10 + infinity.  Debacle.  USE WORDS THAT MAKE SENSE prease.

on Mar 21, 2013

So - 1 thing I had not considered re: the taric nerfs.  If you want the stronger stun, you need to put more points into it.  Pre-nerf, you'd just your 1 point at level 1 and then level it last.  Now, you have a decision on whether or not to level it for an ever so small increase in stun time.  Probably best to just play him the way you did pre-nerf.  If they actually really nerfed the stun duration (like I think they should (maybe .5 second stun level 1), you'd actually feel like you should level it up more.  I still think a change like that is the only way we'll see his pick rate fall off. 

on Mar 21, 2013

This is actually really well done

on Mar 21, 2013



Quoting CPPFZKrdaxDrkrun, reply 2897the skill cap is infinitely higher

Finally a game that has an infinite skill cap.  I'm trying to do the math on this.  Game 1 has a skill cap.  Game 2 has a skill cap that is infinitely greater than game 1.  Skill cap on game 1 in 10.  Skill cap on game 2 is infinitely higher, so 10 + infinitely higher = 10 + infinity.  Debacle.  USE WORDS THAT MAKE SENSE prease.

The meta evolves based on the most obnoxious things you can think of. (And the most obnoxious characters available... Phantom Lancer and Keeper of the Light being the most versatile ones that I can think of at the moment [nerfs incoming]) For example, smoking a creep that you have helm of the dominator'd from the enemy, and then having your entire team boots of travel for a backdoor win.

that's fairly obnoxious, and a strategy that was apparently invented by an asian pro team a while ago...

You can't quite do that in league. Teleport summoner spell is a decent choice as it is to do something similar, but that is sacrificing a bunch of other potentially better choices.

In terms of watching pro teams from LoL and pro teams from DotA 2, the LoL teams will usually do something new and unexpected, but they try to stick to the established meta of Nuker/ganker, ADC, Bruiser, Jungler, Support.

In DotA, I really haven't seen anything that makes an iota of sense other than "well that guy's a carry," and somehow their games turn out beautifully. Sometimes the casters can't even keep up with the odd choices.

 

Since infinity is not representable by a value, and since I can use it as I please, I define it to represent the theory that there exists a value greater than LoL's "skill cap."

You really can't use math with infinity, especially after I used it to represent a prejudiced theory.

By "skill cap," in order to ascertain clarity, I define: "numeric possibility for overall improvement."

By my newer and more prejudiced definitions, I can now say "DotA 2's skill cap is infinitely higher than LoL's"

Since we have now defined everything, hopefully we can move past the "USE WORDS THAT MAKE SENSE prease." and into "well DotA 2 sucks IMO, so there"

Debacle

Boggle

 

on Mar 21, 2013

Nope.

Have some space jam.

https://soundcloud.com/drofnasleinad/r0cket-sauce-nightslam-quad

You's gots to click play in the top left.

on Mar 21, 2013

CPPFZKrdaxDrkrun
You really can't use math with infinity, especially after I used it to represent a prejudiced theory.

There are entire fields of mathematics dedicated to dealing with infinity.  You can deal with it at fairly simple levels with calculus, or you can start using set theory.  For example, look up "Aleph number" on wikipedia, which discusses the cardinality of infinite sets (put in layman's terms, not all infinite sets have the same number of elements).

on Mar 22, 2013

I'd like to have a discussion about support playstyles. I'll get to that in a sec, but first - short recap of the night.

1 game on alt acct - quick dominion to get my first win bonus.  Then onto other account.  Played a bunch of normals with karl/zen/jack/bryff and eventually jona.  Game 1 I think I'm duo'd with karl bot with him playing leona.  I really dislike playing bot with karl leona - more on that in a bit.  Then I continue to play adc the rest of the night, but I've got jack playing thresh and we do a reasonable job.  My adc IQ on trist as pretty damn close to an all time low.  We'd do really, really well in laning... then I'd make insanely bad decisions. 

Almost to the general support playstyle discussion.  In game 1, I was trist and karl was leona. Now, in the past, I know that if karl loses an engage or falls behind, he is very hesitant about going in and playing his role because he's convinced the outcome will be bad.  At least imo, if you kill karl 1 time early bot lane as leona and we don't also get a kill, he becomes useless as a support and will lag behind and refuse to initiate (side note - I'm talking about useless in laning phase only here).  Anyway, I go into this game with the mindset that if karl dies, my laning is going to go to shit.  Well, we end up laned against a jayce (eg awful adc, but good ranged poke).  The sad reality here now is that if I eat skill shots, karl will become a useless support because he won't be willing to engage.  Anyway, I eat skill shots exceedingly well in the game.  Karl keeps a posture of behind me and off to the side and then taunts me for taking skill shots.  So, not only do I have a support that will instantly become useless if a) he dies early and we don't get a kill or b ) I take much damage, but I've got a guy that while being exceeding useful as a "support" is taunting me for eating skill shots.  Pretty cool.  Anyway, I'm 100% sure the game would have gone a bit better for me if I wasn't listening to him run his mouth in skype. 

Anyway, support playstyle discussion.  The entire discussion is about what you should expect from a support.  Now, of the people I play with regularly, I consider jack, myself, thunder, and sharpy to be good supports. Like consistently reliable supports that have the same mindset as me.  When I play support, my job is to zone, protect my adc, harass, ward, and setup kills.  And all of that is to support my adc - there's no I'm backing because I just got enough money for my 1st gp5.  I'm going back when its 100% safe for my adc and most likely backing when he does.  I guess what I'm trying to get at is a little difficult for me to describe though.

I played a ranked or normal game the other with hunny (can't remember).  He ends up supporting my trist as lulu.  In lane, he backs multiple times when I'm not looking to back and leaves me in an unsafe position so he can get a gp/5.  Forces me to back when I'd rather not as well.  Wants to push the lane at unwise times so we can back so he can get some item.  When we'd have a sizable adv if we stay.  And last, he'd decide when to all in without being 100% sure we've got a kill locked down.  In short, he tried to run the lane and force just about every situation which results in me losing cs, taking unnecessary damage, and then eventually losing the lane because after 1 or 2 of those all in calls, he'd die and I'd be forced out with low hp barely getting away.  Now, this sort of behavior is ok if everything lines up.  Eg, if we go all in and get 1 or 2 kills but are low hp, sure - we are going to push the wave and then b.  Works great.  But if you are dictating what your adc can do, then I have a problem with your support play style.  Eg if I'm zoned because you decided to back and not even toss out a ward, you are a bad support.  If I'm zoned because you are unwilling to even stand in a bush, you are a bad support.  My take is that a supports job is to get your adc ahead by doing all that stuff.  Thunder, in a recent game, ran ignite and locked down an early kill that we would not have gotten.  Would have been great if I got that kill, but him playing extremely well gave me an assist and put their adc behind. 

Anywho - when folks support for me, I typically tell them what I want them to do (if they aren't already doing it).  Usually, that's just basic maintenance like toss a ward in here when its safe, etc.  Karl, for instance, isn't all that interested in doing what I need him to do at least when he plays leona.  I'm sure his leona is great when things are going fine.  But god help me if he dies early.  Play taric.

I'll quickly address any criticism Karl might have of me quickly in the hopes that the discussion doesn't feel like an attack per se. I played God awful as trist when you were running leona support in the game I'm talking about.  If you can only take away 1 thing, busting my balls for getting hit with skill shots does not improve my performance (more annoying if you are in a position where you can't possibly zone the enemy while I'm getting wailed on).  I really wish you'd either change your leona playstyle or play someone like taric if that's a problem so you can still be viable regardless of how some trades went. 

on Mar 22, 2013

Pacov, I'm going to be blunt about this.  TRUST YOUR TEAMMATES JUST A LITTLE BIT.  LET THEM DO THEIR JOB AND YOU CONCENTRATE ON DOING YOURS.

I know how to play tanky supports.  I have a better ranked winning percentage with tanky supports than I do with junglers actually (through all 3 seasons).  Just let me play and please just concentrate on your game.  I don't need to be directed around the map like I'm a level 10 player or something.

Also, I'd really like you to go back to that game and take a look at it with a fresh mind.

 http://www.twitch.tv/1pacov1/b/380635915

It starts about 30 minutes into the video.  Go back and watch that laning phase.  Then come back and tell me that that lane was lost because I'm a bad support or whatever.  Your first two deaths were definitely not on me (you admitted that both of those were on you).  Your third death was you going forward when you could have just waited at tower for the exact same CS and you knew I was warding river.  You got chunked down for no reason.  Then ate another skill shot and started blaming me (this is at about 12:30 minutes game time).  That is not my fault at all.  So you were 0/3, while I had no deaths and no responsibility on any of your deaths (nothing I could do about any of them really).  So don't put up a mega blog about how I suck at support because of that laning phase please.

Count up how many things you could have done differently that hurts us as a team, and count up how many things I could have done differently that hurt us.  I didn't play perfectly.  I missed a few skillshots.  Hec chunked me down once right when I came back.  But, in my opinion, you made more frequent and larger mistakes than I did.

That's why I'm somewhat frustrated that after that laning phase, you come on here and put up a big post about how I suck at this and it was my fault and all this.  That's not fair from what actually happened in the game.  I can go back and find a lot of spots where you just made poor plays, but my biggest misplays in lane (other than shanking a few skill shots) were along the lines of "you could have been slightly closer that one time".  We were already way down by that point anyway (btw, I'm not saying its all your fault - Hec was ganking a lot, Noc was useless).

As somebody who plays a lot of jungler and support (you know, the two most frequently blamed positions), I don't appreciate being scapegoated for every lost lane.  I really don't.

 

You said that you were frustrated that I was making fun of you for eating skill shots.  Sorry.  I won't do that again.  But I'm telling you this.  DON'T SCAPEGOAT THE JUNGLER/SUPPORT JUST BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE YOUR BEST GAME GAME.  WE DON'T APPRECIATE IT.

 And if you are sensitive about me saying stuff about your play, thats fine.  But don't be a hypocrite about it.  You called me a crap support multiple times throughout the night and then called me out publicly here.  If its not OK for others to make fun of your play, you can't be even be even more negative when you make fun of somebody else's play.

 

on Mar 22, 2013

Teleport summoner spell is a decent choice as it is to do something similar, but that is sacrificing a bunch of other potentially better choices.

Teleport is typically used in pro games all the time. You see 1-2 teleports (even more against TF since playing against TF requires taking teleport yourself) a game usually in LCS. 

In terms of watching pro teams from LoL and pro teams from DotA 2, the LoL teams will usually do something new and unexpected, but they try to stick to the established meta of Nuker/ganker, ADC, Bruiser, Jungler, Support.

 
This is an extremely uninformed thing to say. 
 
The nicest thing about the current meta (and the reason Riot hasn't changed it) is that it has a place for literally every single role. Tank, control mage, burst magge, support, ranged dps, bruisers, assassins, AoE comps... 
 
Go through the champion roster in LoL and there isn't a single character that doesn't fit into the metaUnviable champions are not unviable because they don't fit the meta - they are unviable because they are numerically inferior and need a work. 
 
Melee AD Carries (Yi, Trynd, Fiora)? Viable top lane, but Jax is just numerically better than them while doing the same thing.
 
Karma? Numerically inferior as a support, and her kit is focused on supporting melee carries, not ranged. Which is why you put her mid, and then Jax top, then use Lulu as your support (this is a very popular compision Najin Sword uses). 
 
Heim? He's really strong mid lane 1v1 still - that isn't why he is weak.  

Even then, all these characters are perfectly adequate at our skill level - it seems odd to say that you are frustrated by skill ceiling when you aren't plat/diamond. Maybe what you mean to say is that you don't feel correctly rewarded for being able to carry a game 1v5 - and DotA2 does. That doesn't mean that DotA has a higher skill cap though - it just means they have super crazy hyper carries that create binary games (you either shut them down or you don't and they win: see nunu kog). 

Furthermore, it seems odd that having an expected framework to create a teamcomp lowers skill. 

In fact, it seems like it increases it. i'm not sure how being able to throw together 5 heroes and have it work... raises the skill cap? If "anything" works then doesn't that lower the burden of knowledge?

Figuring out teams is part of the metagame and a required piece of knowledge for competitive players. 

Not to mention there is a huge debate whether or not "cheese" is a skill or not. That is a holy war i'm not going to go into.

 

Thunder, in a recent game, ran ignite and locked down an early kill that we would not have gotten.  Would have been great if I got that kill, but him playing extremely well gave me an assist and put their adc behind. 

Ignite on supports is standard EU/KR meta if the carry is taking Barrier/Cleanse. Exhaust is a lot weaker now in general.

Some supports cannot really actually use the CC exhaust provides (Leona/Blitz already have enough CC to go around, they want damage). 

 

Exhaust is better:

1- in teamfights if you are playing a tanky support that can actually exhaust the enemy AD and your own AD doesn't need peel

2- when being ganked (but not tower dove)

3- against heavy autoattacking diving junglers (Xin, Nocturne)

 

Ignite is better:

1- For getting kills (esp in early 2v2 fights). It has a shorter CD so nice timing windows, and then the 5 AD/AP is nice afterwards.

2- Conditionally better in ganks (exhaust is better for shutting down mobile carries, but ignite is better for actually killing them)

3- When being tower dove (can usually trade 1 for 1)

4- support duels 

5- 2v1 lanes

 

 

If you can only take away 1 thing, busting my balls for getting hit with skill shots does not improve my performance

i don't think busting Karl helps his performance either (sounds like you had some tension there)

on Mar 22, 2013

Udyr received another buff that at least I think is a very good one - When the speed boost is active on udyr's E, we can walk through minions. 

 

on Mar 22, 2013

udyr now DASHES when close to his opponent when he uses E.  Riot confirms this is the intended functionality.  I'm going to get on PBE and check it out today.

on Mar 22, 2013

streaming some jungle udyr from pbe for a little bit.

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