well, if its a bunk strat, its bunk.  I'm not sure.  There certainly are things that make it more difficult to do turret dmg early though.

This got me looking into outer towers.  1 thing I kind of knew but wasn't certain - outer turrets give 150 gold globally to the team.  The team also gets 70 xp. You get no bonus for being close to the turret when it drops. 

Other stuff - fortification bonus - this makes it so 30 dmg is blocked from champion basic attacks.  This expires after 7 minutes.  That's the big one.  They also have 67 armor. And - I'm not certain, but even though its generally not a factor, if the turret has reinforced armor, it gets 200 arm when no enemy minions are in range for attack.  S

Realistically, you can't get to a turret to attack it even on a crazy aggressive 2 man lane until 3 min or so.  That's essentially 4 min, with crap items, where you dmg output against the turrets is weak.  And of course, you aren't going to be able to wail on the turrets nonstop during those 4 minutes, But some work can certainly be done.  And if the other team isn't taking the same tactic (hard push their lane), then there are pretty good odds you'll get the turret 1st - or at the very least force the enemy jungler to camp/assist top. 

Anyway, whole idea could be poop.  Just saying what I'm thinking.  Barring what I'm describing, STRICTLY from a getting turrets as quickly as possible, any thoughts? 

Re: 2v1's

Yeah, it's exactly like Karl and Cow said but that doesn't mean there isn't some sort of alternate way of taking advantage of the strat.  Problem I see, even if you are onto something, is that you're probably going to have a fairly gimped Top (do you call him a Solo Bot at this point?) and Jungle afterwards.  Hopefully you realize that if you ever want to try this strat out, you're going to probably have to volunteer for one of the gimped roles to get people on board.  

Re: Pacov's New Found Love Of All Things Cho And Teemo Related

Bahahahaha!

I'm going to find you some OP.GG replays of Korean Challenger Gangplank so you can start loving him too.

It comes down to this:

Let's say things "work" and you get their tower but they really don't do much to yours because they zone out.  So you flip back.  Yay!

Now your top is probably a few levels behind and substantial gold behind (even with 150 gold from the tower) since your top was zoned out of xp/gold.  If you are behind levels and items in a solo lane, guess what happens?  You get zoned out again!  This is what you see happen to pro games a lot.  So they freeze out that lane again, and we might very well have a solo laner who never comes on line and just gets bullied all game.

Sacrificing a player for a tower or two is generally not worth it unless we want to play hyper specific strategies.

Pro play has shown that the best way to get towers is to have strong players.  If your players are having success all over the map, you will get objectives.  The idea of modern lane swapping is to get advantages in player strength, not so much tower pushing.  But your idea is putting 20% of the team in a position to fail, which I think will have bad implications for objectives over the course of the whole game.

god I hope I don't someday think he's not poop.  I'll give you he can be a hoot in certain matchups, but he's still the kind of champ you shouldn't pick regularly.  I enjoy playing as him as well, but its just not that good for a team imo. 

I do want to explore very specific strategies.  If that's have a hyper carry (in case that's what you are referring to, then cool).  In the scenario you describe, tower control is achieved and our team can move onto the next objective.  Anyway, I'm not all that convinced I have exactly a good plan here - just getting some thoughts out. 

I don't think the best strategy is to count on your lanes to really kill it and be awesome.  I mean, ideally that's it.  Then if you have a little awareness, you take objectives like you said.  There's not really much thought required for bot lane to get a double kill then take bot turret. 

What we can make a strategy for is perhaps deciding when to give up a drag intentionally in order to take another objective.  I'm not really sure the best way to pull that off.  I think alot could be accomplished with a dbl tb comp with a split push focus for such things.  Now, you have very good odds of grabbing a turret, etc.  There are always trade offs for such things, but there are plenty of reasonable comps where dbl tp could be used like that without much of a downside. 

Anyway, as there are a lot of ideas going around, any final thoughts on when we'd want to lane swap?  Is the general view that its a dumb idea if the goal is to get an early top turret?  Would we only want to do that if we have a weaker hyper carry and we want to punish their top lane, etc?  When would we pull out a strat like that?  If were specifically talking about our group, do we have anyone that plays specific hyper carries that would be worth doing this?  Or someone that plays specific tops that would be fine for the most part even if they sacrifice some cs?

I think the best strategy in SoloQ is to count on yourself to kill it and be awesome.  Doesn't always happen but your own performance is the only thing you can really control.  And if you do well in a game it causes people to listen to you.

Perception is a funny thing.  Two players could be telling their team to do the exact same thing by making a good call.  The one with the great KDA is a leader who is trying to help his team win.  The one with a poor KDA is a piece of shit troll who needs to stfu.  Not saying that's how things should be, just saying that's how all team sports/games are.

Anyways, back to The Pacov Theorem.  Are you actually wanting to try this out or are you just pondering how the game could be played better?  Is it for SoloQ or Ranked 5's?

If you're thinking this is something that could ever be managed in a SoloQ game, remember that not everyone is going to be a specialist in their role.  If this has a chance of being worth the risk/trouble, I'd think you'd need a hyper carry like Twitch or Kog or Vayne as ADC and your champion selection for Jungle and Top would be limited too.  I don't see telling randoms that might be playing off role what champs to take going well so I'm thinking this is a Ranked 5's thing you want to do if you ever want to do it?

ranked 5's and/or a group of 5.  I'm all for trying other things.  The downside is if its not ranked 5's, cow will probably go support aatrox because its not a ranked game.  And if it is ranked 5's, folks probably won't be willing to try out strats because ranked is too serious a place to try things out... smeh.  kind of a no win for someone interested in trying out team strats, eh.  I think I probably just need a different group of folks to try these things out.  And yeah - I know - solo q = no go. 

I just think it would be fun to try things like this out or see if its possible to create a situation where the enemy team takes a dragon and we get a turret that isn't based on reactionary deaths.  Or come up with intentional 4 man ganks at specific times during specific windows.. just something more interesting than I killed my lane and got a tower as a result.  I'd love to to come up with even a simple specific time, intentional rotation after someone gets scuttler to go for gank.  Some things we try in specific time windows... anyway - to me, that's more fun. 

I am always down to try things! and aatrox support was actually pretty decent but unintended with the teemo. Good thing he was a support teemo so I had to lane vs him anyway!

Just be all yo fellas, lets do some CLG lane swaps and rotations this game before we start the game and I think we can make this happen.

The question remains:  Who will be playing Top?  In all this discussion, no one has expressed much enthusiasm (or even willingness) that I've seen for playing the role that is going to be put "in a position  to fail" with this strategy.

Depending on bot lane, AP Zyra can probably hang in a 2v1 scenario with a sustain oriented loadout.  If jungle does a level 2 gank and babysits for the first couple, once she can throw out plants she can wreck a lot of combinations.  She's vulnerable to burst, not harass.  She might even be able to win a lot of ADC lanes as long as she's helped along to level 3.  Her big deficit will be in reaching level 2 because she can be zoned in epic fashion before she hits it.  If she got rolling off a kill spree, she could stomp a lane 2v1 and keep it that way after level 6.

oh I'd gladly do it.  Only thing I need is either a leech with the jungler at the start to level 2 or some solo a camp tp stuff.  And I don't view it  the same way you do.  The idea is to make a trade off for something useful.  The question is whether or not if it is.  If I'm involved, I have no prob being the guy soloing.  

I was looking at best case scenario being Top gives up having much impact in the game in return for the rest of the team profiting.  And you are looking at it as Top will have plenty of impact when joining in the stompfest later so who cares about being zoned a little early on probably?

Was watching a Chinese match I think?  Tank Sin Top with Cinder Skirmisher's.  Going smite might help alleviate that early pain if you need to farm Krugs/Gromp when they freeze you out from the wave.

You guys had a five man premade last night and all I saw was meta the first game. Did you try out the Pacov Lane Switchylaroo in the next game that I didn't see?  If so, how did it go?

Id be fine if we have a team of 5 that is on the ranked team. I think my champion pool or hedgie's is best for 2v1ing in top lane. Mao, sion and gnar all do fairly well in these situations. 

hey - checkout stife on steam.  its another moba - f2p.  Trying out now.  Kinda fun so far.  Very good tutorial.  Fun mission at the start.  ez learning curve.  

Tried Strife a while back.  It's got some neat anti-toxicity mechanics to it and is rather fun.  Too many things where it's similar enough but different from LoL where it's hard to adapt.  I have Attack Move Click bound to my left mouse button in game for instance.  Unless I could ever figure out how to do the same for Strife, it would remain unplayable for me.

Watched Cow hit some crazy hooks last night in a Ranked.  His team nearly won after having a Nasus DC early and fall way behind, but three of them threw by trying to sneak their 5th Dragon that the other team wasn't keen on letting them get for some reason.  I guess things don't get that much better in Diamond as far as AFK's and teamwork go.

I so sad we lost that one