1st pentakill, 3rd lcs loss.  Looking good bby. 

5's team:

Had fun playing 5's last night. Competition was right around our skill levels looking at the opposing teams solo queue ranks baring a few exceptions (2-3 silvers players). I think hunny on ADC worked on really well for us as a dedicated ADC was part of our problem last season.

Hedgie's Gnar was stellar and definitely kept us in the game on that last game? (which ever game it was that we almost threw).

A few questionable baron/dragon calls were made but that is sort of typical for us. We need to make better judgements for those two objectives. Also I wouldn't mind having a discussion about dragons in general.

Dragon to me is no longer that high of a priorty. If we manage to secure the first dragon I am fine with never taking another one (unless its really easy and we wont be contested). I would rather secure towers than taking a dragon given the option. Global gold is far more important than the next dragon buff. If we are ahead as a team and want to team fight at dragon we should let the other team start it and then collapse onto them (if we have decent vision). Taking the 2nd or third dragon if we are behind and could of gotten 1 or even 2 towers instead makes no sense to me. The global gold from the towers will help catch us up on items that we desperately need the medicore buffs of dragon 2-3 are not worth it, I would rather have a completed item instead. Knocking down towers also helps us get control of the map again and allows for getting easier jungle wards.

I am not saying that we shouldn't do dragon. I am just saying that dragons 2-3 are not really worth fighting over or making bad calls for when there are safer/less greedy options (sometimes even backing to buy items after a team fight is a better call then doing an objective when everyone is at 1/3 health and the enemy team can just push in a lane or baron because everyone HAS to back on our team).

i agree. While i am a decent Kog player, Kog is not always a safe pick or the pick we want to put into a teamcomp. We do also have pacov, i know that he's been playing a lot of Graves and stuff as well.

That said, i do want to say that, at the moment, i am very much a "top or feed" player. Last season, i could play a few different roles, and i didn't mind supporting and stuff. While i *can* support still, i no longer am mostly only playing support in ranked, etc, and i feel like i might be a liability in most lanes but top or mid (and mid would really only be Velkoz and Anivia).

i know that pacov can sometimes get bored/frustrated with playing support all the time, and since i can't really "sub in" to support anymore, i think that if pacov is bored of support, that we should just switch to Normals and then someone else can support.

i agree.

The first dragon buff is pretty good, and the third one is too, so we should commit a little more to those. The primary advantage of getting the second dragon isn't the buff, it's denying the opponent their first dragon buff. If it's a very close game and we go 0-for-3, but get the dragon, them getting the kill gold is better than us getting the 2nd dragon buff, so we actually slip a little bit behind. And if they get the dragon steal...

i know in a lot of the games last night i was teleporting around a lot, and my opposing top tower was still standing: that would have been an easy source of income, for example.

The thing about dragon is that it gives you the opportunity to force neutral ground fights (i.e. not under enemy tower) in the early/mid game.  This is a very good thing if the enemy team outscales you.  So its not so much the buff as it is the opportunity to be forcing something at neutral ground with a team that is stronger at that phase of the game.

Last season we didn't really have to worry about getting outscaled much.  We generally had Irelia top and WW jungle, so we could go with the general mentality that as long as we didn't lose early very badly, we would probably win late.  This also fit in with Cow's general mentality that he likes to play a very slow early game.  But, if we are doing things like Graves bot and Pantheon jungle, we might want a fairly different mentality.  Those kind of lineups typically want to build leads in the early/mid game or they could get into trouble.

I can play junglers that scale better (or have very neutral scaling), but the point is that dragon is probably a piece of a larger puzzle.  Its really about the level of team aggression, and we should be on the same page there.  Pacov and hunny tend to be very aggressive, Cow is very passive early.  I'm all over the place depending on what I'm playing.

I like fighting at dragon if we are the team thats doing the collapse but for that to happen we need vision (wards, crab, whatever) of what is going on at the pit. The first dragon I am all about fighting over but the next 2 I would rather let the other team try to do and us jump on them in the middle of it (rather than the other way around). I am suggesting this style of approach to dragon because we seem to throw or get the other team back into it by starting dragons ourselves and losing team fights on the ensuing fight.

Assuming that either Cow or myself is going to be playing mid, we will almost have a low-mobility AoE mage with a lot of zoning potential. Similarily, Pacov and Hunny tend to play more early-game focused ADCs (more often Lucian/Caitlyn/Graves rather than Kog/Twitch/Trist). Pacov also tends to be rather gank-focused bot lane, and tends to purchase a lot of pink wards, etc.

i think that means that we are often going to be in a position where we will be advantaged for the first dragon or so.

For myself, i can certainly play a few different styles, but my champs tend to be more teamfight focused:

1- Gnar

2- Rumble

Champs i have worked on a fair amount but may not be as consistent as my Gnar:

3- Hec

4- Kennen

5- Renekton

Rumble is pretty crazy when it comes to dragons. Gnar is pretty good if the team is ahead. Can be difficult if we are behind though, because probably won't be able to build rage. Hecarim and Kennen are worse than Rumble for the first 2 dragons but equal/better later on.

Luckily a lot of these champs are all reasonably well scaling, especially if the rest of the team is doing really well (Rumble, Gnar, Hec, Kennen). i don't mind playing the "sucker" in the team and not always getting as much attention as the rest of the lanes.

The biggest gap in my roster is a pure-tank that isn't weak early (Hecarim is pretty tanky, but has very little lane presence early game). If we really need me to learn Maokai, i could do that.

A lot of my roster is also very vulnerable to Lissandra or Irelia. Gnar and Kennen both really struggle against Irelia unless i receive jungle backup (since they will push the lane pretty hard). Lissandra is really good against Gnar in lane until i finish Hexdrinker, and can bypass Mega-Gnar in teamfights.

i feel like of the two, Lissandra is the greater evil of the two, and i think that we should be using a ban on her if possible.

Well, the play we want to be running is we go to dragon, get the crab, then try and start a fight with them.  Use xerath or brand to poke them first.  If they have better scaling teams, they generally aren't even going to go to the dragon if we don't make them.

What was happening last night was there was some confusion.  We would get to dragon, somebody would hit it once, then we would have an angry dragon hitting us while the other team was staring at us.  This kind of put us between a rock and a hard place, so it was like "screw it, GO FOR THE DRAGON FAST".

I should be getting a dedicated internet account at my GF's place on Wednesday assuming I can pull some strings and be available to sign for it while I'm working. If not then it will be soon and hopefully the connection will be solid even with almost every dwelling on the property having it's own modem.

When I start playing on a regular basis I'd love to fill in for you guys on Support if you want me.  However if Pacov is ever going to be playing ADC in these situations, we would have to figure out a way for us to coexist with me playing Thresh in the bot lane.  

@Pacov: Actually that may be something you would want to iron out anyway if you're still planning on climbing to Diamond this season.  Thresh is a popular, high impact, versatile Support that's currently played quite a bit in higher levels and he is being built almost exclusively with Relic Shield.  Your Graves is pretty damn good right now so that would probably be a great option if you play any Ranked games without Duoing with Hunny.  Talking your team's Support out of playing one of the stronger champions or going on tilt in champ select if you look like you're going to lane with a Thresh isn't going to be ideal in those situations.

My suggestion would be to learn to play Thresh with Relic Shield.  If memory serves, the last time you laned with my Thresh a lot of our frustration came from you trying to get me to proc the passive at what I felt were inappropriate times.  The sustain is an important part of the item's appeal and to waste that by proccing it when we're at full health and I'm not at full charges isn't ideal.  Also, you have to let that E damage charge up over time though so when you insist on me trying to last hit right after harassing it becomes very difficult to pull off.  I think if you learned to play Thresh you'd kinda keep this all in mind better when playing ADC alongside a Thresh and you'd have the funnest Support in your arsenal which would help making playing Support for Cow's team less boring.

Top 3 roles for me - TOP/ADC/SUPPORT.  Gnar/irelia/liss, graves/cait/lucy, all. I'm a little backslid"en" on jung - mid serviceable, but not super. 

Here's the thing re: me playing supp eg here's the tilt formula - if someone is worse than me at top or adc and I'm stuck supporting (eg non carry), I get fed up very quick.  If I consider the folks in those roles on par or better than me, then I don't mind at all. If hedgies running top and consistently underperforms.. yeah - I'm annoyed. He'd doing fine afaik. Hunny's fairly solid at adc, but most games requires steering (eg what are you doing now).  I duo w/ hunny - I don't mind him at adc and he does fine.  It's worth noting that I don't enjoy support, but am happy to fill that role as long as I agree with folks being in certain roles.  If we are better off in a comp with a lissandra top and gnar is banned, then I'd hope we can be more flexible than top or feed though.  No real complaints from me atm though.  That will change if we have some streak of underperformance in those roles (eg an actual streak - not just a few bad games here and there).  I'm pleased with folks performance as is, but do hope we can be a little bit fluid as benefits the team. 

re: your thresh idea thunder - well, I personally could work with that, but I also personally don't pick that item when I play support.  I don't think folks are consistently good with using it in the gold/plat realm (eg it costs me more money than its worth as an adc).  It might be worth praticing some with someone like you, but that won't change my mind re: the item when others run thresh.  Same diff - i could start working on using that on thresh when I'm supporting, but I just don't think its cool to get in solo queue unless you are freaking amazing.  The moment I lose 2+ cs because of someone wailing away.. smeh.  Take some other item and do something more useful than setting me behind. I don't want to worry about ganks, then enemy adc/support, and my support making me lose cs. 

I play exclusively with Gold players in Ranked and have experienced the full range of my ADC flawlessly working around my Relic Shield procs and getting near perfect CS to having one threaten to AFK if I caused him to miss another CS.  Getting my CS in without fucking up my ADC's almost feels like a skill unto itself, one that I've got much better at.  

However I still run into some ADCs who don't really work around my CSing at all.  It's not that they're less skilled at ADC... its just like they aren't as good playing with a Thresh?  They tend to obliviously try to take every minion that I'm going for which causes my attack to finish on another minion and then... well, gold get's wasted.  But for the most part my ADC's are getting better at the Thresh CS Game... probably because I am.

I feel playing Thresh with Relic Shield is the optimal way, as do almost all Thresh players.  A small amount go Coin and that's fine, but playing Coin Thresh doesn't help people get better at learning to CS with and around a Relic Thresh.  If you're not into learning that skill, that's fine but waiting for you to tilt as soon as you miss your 2nd CS doesn't sound fun.  I think Pacov/Thunder bot lanes are a no go at this point... as long as Thresh is my best champ anyway.

I'll point some things out that hopefully will help you keep your cool next time you have a Thresh Support you as ADC.  The CS you miss because a Thresh screws up your CSing is offset somewhat.  Pushed against your tower?  You can't get all the minions every time and Thresh can help you grab ones that you would have missed.  In some circumstances you're not going to be able to reach minions without taking massive harass but your tanky full health Thresh can get them for you.  Etc etc.  

tl;dr Sometimes you gotta focus on the dopeness, not the whackness...

there is another threst build that I like if you are not comfortable with relic shield. I sometimes actually start ruby crystal and go straight into sight stone. This will net you less gold over all but used to be extremely popular even at the pro level.

15 sec later... ... I mean what...

you're damn right - but it is another variable that your adc needs to factor in which is a distraction.  And another thing with assuming that every knucklehead going thresh is capable.  Nothing wrong with learning to deal with it, but its not something I find all that exciting or useful.  Back when relic shield started to become more popular, I spent a bit of time bitching about streamers, etc, using it.  Last hitting is most difficult when you have low damage output.  Now take that mechanic and have a support try to do that all game.  You know... supports that often accel at last hitting as they don't normally do that at all (sans the relic dmg bonus)... all with having very low ad damage.  It does seem like a pretty easy argument to make, right? 

Anyway, its certainly something I could get coached on over the course of a few games.  It's not that difficult to even ping certain creeps initially to clarify your intent a little. 

When I play thresh is solo queue (which has been fairly frequently) my ADC or I actually ping the creeps that I or him wants me to kill, it works fairly well.

Experiments:

I have played some different mid laners in a few match ups than I ususally do to try to open up my roster a bit.

I picked ryze into an azir. It was a rough lane with him managing to solo kill me twice in lane (super aggressive player asked my jungle to punish, he eventually came and killed him like 3 times in a row with me never getting the kill). Anyways late game I rolled him but every lane lost by then (including mine do to me not getting fed from ganks). Not sure if I would play this match up again but it reminded me how strong ryze gets mid to late game.

I have given Kassadin a spin now twice in ranked. The first game I stomped hard. The second game I was laned vs a vlad. From a jungle invade we picked up two kills at level 1 I got to start with 5 pots so my CS ended up about 10 behind vlad at 10 minutes where it should of been 20-30. I never managed to secure kills and get items rolling. Kassadin is very item dependent as his levels don't add much to his abilities in terms of damage. All lanes lost again with bot being REALLY bad 0-8 sona 2-10 kalista? I feel like I could of done more this game with bot roams but I was focused on keeping the tower up vs vlad.

Xerath has been a continued experiment. I laned vs a corki last night and was out pushed and out farmed. My jungler could of punished easily but he d/c'd for the first few minutes so no leash and slow start. I missed a lot of kills by less than 100 hp because of missed ults and skill shots. My Xerath play is really inconsistant. I am either on target or miss everything. Its not like when I play brand where I almost always land everything but I guess I have played a lot more brand games. I thought I would of picked up Xerath better by now.

I have played Karma a few times now mid but not in solo queue. I feel she has no bad match ups but lacks the 100 to zero potential of most mid laners mid to late game. Her early game is very strong with pushing and csing. She is a bully in lane vs anyone. If we run a damage heavy jungler/top I think Karma is a decent pick for supporting them with decent damage on top of it (although lulu/morg mid would do the same thing and possibly better).

RE: pacov roles on my team

Currently I think top lane is sort of tied up between hedgie/bryff/dan (unless dan is ADC). With our current friends and positions they play I wouldn't be putting you top lane. ADC however is a spot I think can be rotated between Dan/hunny/pacov depending on the players we have that night.

Here are the people I want playing positions from first to last:

Top: Hedgie, Dan, Bryff, Pacov, Me

Jungle: Karl, Me, dan (sorry karl you are stuck here)

Mid: Me, Hedgie/Dan (I don't think we will be playing without me much but both of you are quite good mid)

ADC: Dan, Hunny, Pacov, Hedgie, Thunder, me

Support: Pacov/Thunder, Hedgie, Me

If we do have thunder/hedgie on at the same time I think they work well together bot lane and would rather stick them bot together and rotate pacov to top assuming karl is jungling.

I hope this doesn't offend any one. Skill level wise I think Dan has the most potential to carry games and should be put in a role where he can do so if he is playing with us (top, mid or adc). Out of anyone I would give up mid to Dan if I had to to make the team the best it can be in my opinion.

oh and bryff going mid is also an option on kassadin or ahri

Also if we have Pacov/Hunny on at the same time they will be playing bot lane together.